Ubuntu Wiki

Ubuntu Open Week - Desktop Team - Sebastien Bacher - Wed, Oct 24, 2007

18:07 -!- PriceChild changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current Session: Desktop Team - Sebastien Bacher
18:07 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o PriceChild] by ChanServ
18:08 < seb128> hello everybody
18:09 < dholbach> hey seb128!
18:09 < Quintasan> hiho
18:09 < marius> hi Sebastian
18:09 < seb128> dholbach!!!
18:09 < dholbach> welcome super-seb128 and super-lool
18:09 < Aw0L> edenbeast, no no - the machines will take over regardless - if we want to hack their drones to fight for us, we'd better sharpen our linux kung foo
18:09 < dholbach> the dynamic desktop duo!
18:09 < seb128> lool is also around? ;-)
18:09 < seb128> let's get started
18:09 < seb128> my name is Sébastien Bacher and I'm working on the Ubuntu Desktop for Canonical
18:10 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+v seb128] by ChanServ
18:10 <+seb128> do we have some desktop contributors around?
18:10 < dholbach> Martinp23 is here!
18:10 <+seb128> waouh, lot of people on this chan ;-)
18:10 <+seb128> right
18:10 <+seb128> dholbach as well ;-)
18:10 < Riddell> do I count? :)
18:11 <+seb128> Riddell: did you contribute to the Ubuntu desktop? ;-)
18:11 < Hobbsee> Riddell: no. you're from the evil kubuntu team :P
18:11 <+seb128> ok
18:11 <+seb128> I'll do a short presentation of the team and then we will do Q&A
18:11 < dholbach> seb128: the rest of people are all future desktop team contributors :)
18:11 < DaSkreech_> Evel!
18:11 <+seb128> The ubuntu desktop team wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam , you should find informations on what the team is doing, how to contribute, etc there.
18:11 <+seb128> if the documentation is not clear your are welcome to improve it, that's a wiki ;-)
18:12 <+seb128> The team has an IRC channel (#ubuntu-desktop) and a mailing-list (ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com), feel free to join or subscribe if you have any question or want to contribute
18:12 <+seb128> there is also 2 teams on launchpad
18:12 <+seb128> desktop-bugs which focus on the bug triage
18:12 <+seb128> hey fernando ;-) (an another desktop team contributor)
18:12 < fernando> hey seb128 =)
18:13 <+seb128> and ubuntu-desktop which is quite new and has restricted membership since it gives access to the bzr of the team for example
18:13 <+seb128> What we are usually doing:
18:13 <+seb128> we
18:13 <+seb128> - update desktop packages
18:13 <+seb128> - triage desktop bugs
18:13 <+seb128> - fix desktop bugs
18:14 <+seb128> - discuss changes to do for the next versions
18:14 <+seb128> - work on those
18:14 <+seb128> - and probably many other things I didn't enumerate there ;-)
18:14 <+seb128> the team is quite open so if you have any suggestion or something you want to work on, feel free to join
18:14 <+seb128> Some things we want to work on for the next cycle:
18:15 < Solarion> what makes a bug a Desktop bug?
18:15 <+seb128> - update GNOME to 2.22 (we like to have GNOME update and users like that as well apparently ;-)
18:15 <+seb128> Solarion: a bug filed on one of the desktop packages but questions after the introduction please
18:15 <+seb128> - the new version will be a LTS so we will mainly focus on bug fixing and stabilisation
18:15 <+seb128> - probably some specifications that will discussed at UDS
18:15 <+seb128>  
18:16 <+seb128> Some other things that need work and where anybody can contribute:
18:16 <+seb128> - the tasks which have just been listed
18:16 <+seb128> - improve the wiki documentation
18:16 <+seb128> - speak about the team work and try to get new contributors
18:17 <+seb128> - try to figure a nice workflow around bzr for packaging
18:17 <+seb128> (we did add some packages to the ubuntu-desktop bzr archive on launchpad but  that complicates the work for the moment and we would like to get it as simple as "get the source, do your change, upload")
18:18 <+seb128> - and maybe get some "work to do" automated lists for packages that need to be merged on Debian, updates, don't build, etc
18:18 <+seb128>  
18:18 <+seb128> that's about it for the introduction
18:19 < keegan> what languages has one to know to become a desktop developer
18:19 <+seb128> questions are welcome now, could somebody look at #ubuntu-classroom-chat and copy the questions?
18:20 <+seb128> keegan: english (or french) ;-)
18:20 <+seb128> computer languages? none
18:20 < Quintasan> [20:12:24]      pwnguin | QUESTION: I'm trying to control my ubuntu desktop with a wiimote; what resources does the Desktop Team offer for this sort of effort?   │ Bonzodog
18:20 <+seb128> there is lot of things you can do without coding
18:20 < phitoo> could you please address the plans for kubuntu?
18:20 < marius> [21:04] <marius> QUESTION: Hi Sebastien! Will it ever be an original, full compatible Yahoo Messenger 8 client for Ubuntu? Because Pidgin is not even close compatible with Yahoo Messenger 8...not to talk about other chat clients such as Kopete...
18:21 <+seb128> pwnguin: none at the moment, we have limited ressources and quite some work on the "standard desktop" at the moment, you are welcome to join the team and start an effort on that though
18:21 < pwnguin> seb128: theres already a package
18:21 < pwnguin> seb128: it just requires some knowledge about xmodmap
18:21 <+seb128> pwnguin: feel free to join #ubuntu-desktop to speak about better integration whenever you want then
18:22 <+seb128> phitoo: questions on #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
18:22 <+seb128> is anybody taking care of selecting questions and copying those here?
18:22 <+seb128> marius: that would be upstream work, we don't have the ressources to do coding for them at the moment
18:22 < Quintasan> QUESTION: Is anyone planning on paying attention to the small details on compiz during the gutsy cycle?
18:23 < marius> i see, thaks :)
18:23 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o jussi01] by ChanServ
18:23 < marius> thanks*
18:23 <+seb128> Quintasan: yes, we will focus on fixing bugs and usuability issues and compiz is on the list of software that need some polish
18:24 < pwnguin> seb128: so should i asssign bugs to the desktop team?
18:24 <+seb128> pwnguin: no, we read bugs on desktop teams packages
18:24 < nalioth> questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please. direct them to jussi01
18:24 <@jussi01> <jussi01> QUESTION: Will the K/Ubuntu device database ever work? (not just tell me Im not using Ubuntu Hoary or Breezy)
18:24 <+seb128> you have a list of those packages on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
18:25 <+seb128> if you want to let the desktop know about something you can subscribe the team
18:25 <+seb128> don't assign it though
18:25 < marius> <marius> QUESTION: GIMP 2.4 was released today! Ubuntu 7.10 has the RC3 version...why there is such a long delay until we can update it? Also, Transmission packages are very old (version 0.72), today was released version 0.90.... I use version 0.82 from another repo. Firefox took about 4 days until was available for update.
18:26 <+seb128> jussi01: there was some discussions about it during the UDS in Sevilla 6 months ago and that's on the map, not sure if that will happen this cycle though
18:26 <+seb128> marius: -chat for question please
18:26 <+seb128> next
18:26 <@jussi01> QUESTION: GIMP 2.4 was released today! Ubuntu 7.10 has the RC3 version...why there is such a long delay until we can update it? Also, Transmission packages are very old (version 0.72), today was released version 0.90.... I use version 0.82 from another repo. Firefox took about 4 days until was available for update.
18:26 <+seb128> such a long delay? it was release today as you said ...
18:27 <+seb128> we will look at updating it to gutsy-proposed and gutsy-updates as we do with GNOME 2.20.1
18:27 <+seb128> dunno about transmission
18:27 <+seb128> that's not a desktop package
18:28 <+seb128> neither is firefox, but 4 days doesn't look like too much time to test possible regression, especially if there was saturday and sunday in this 4 days
18:28 <+seb128> next
18:28 <@jussi01> <pwnguin> QUESTION: I'm trying to control my ubuntu desktop with a wiimote; what resources does the Desktop Team offer for this sort of effort?
18:28 < pwnguin> uh
18:28 < pwnguin> already answered
18:28 < pwnguin> next
18:28 <+seb128> already replied to this one directly here ;-)
18:28 <+seb128> next
18:28 <@jussi01> <nosami> QUESTION: Where is help most needed? Development or Packaging?
18:28 <+seb128> nosami: I would say bug triage and fixing ;-)
18:29 <+seb128> but contribution to package updates and development are also very welcome
18:29 <+seb128> next
18:29 <@jussi01> <mbt> QUESTION: With the increasing speed with which development and stable (and compatible) releases of software are coming out, is the Desktop team considering making certain classes of packages "volatile", or starting some sort of "volatile" component for the desktop that would enable users to continue running a chosen release, but also have newer versions of popular packages like OOo, Pidgin, and so forth?
18:30 <+seb128> mbt: not really, no, we focus on the desktop version for the next Ubuntu release which is already enough work
18:30 <+seb128> such efforts are rather in the scope of the backport team
18:30 <+seb128> and not limited to desktop packages
18:30 <+seb128> next
18:30 <@jussi01> <zeth> QUESTION: Are there any plans to provide an approachable and consistent experience for graphical system administration? Currently there are tens of different looking tools scattered across administration/preferences and a few things in accessories and other places.
18:31 <+seb128> zeth: I'm not sure what your issue with the current tools is exactly, we removed the application, system tools category of the default menu to avoid confusion
18:31 <+seb128> all the admin tools are under system, administration now
18:31 <+seb128> and what they do should be clear enough (network, users, etc)
18:32 <+seb128> specific suggestions are welcome on the chan or list if you have some though
18:32 <+seb128> next
18:32 <@jussi01> QUESTION: Since Webmin will no longer be part of Ubuntu, will CipUX be replacing it? (Debian seems to be leaning towards it) If not, then what other solution?
18:33 <+seb128> we do sync packages on Debian so if they get it it'll be available in Ubuntu as well
18:33 <+seb128> dunno specifically about this one, that would be rather a question for the server team than the desktop one
18:33 <+seb128> next
18:33 <@jussi01>  QUESTION: My phpmyadmin apt-get install was interrupted, how can i restart it, so the config script will rerun aswell. Apt-get remove/install, wont do a rerun on the config script.
18:33 <@jussi01> ( Jaac )
18:34 <+seb128> Jaac: that's rather an user support question and off topic here, you can try on #ubuntu though
18:34 <+seb128> and phpmyadmin is not a desktop package for the record
18:34 <+seb128> next
18:34 <@jussi01> <pwnguin> QUESTION: about half of the .mp4s I download from google video refuse to play in totem -- are there any concrete plans for new gstreamer plugins and fixes to existing ones, in either ubuntu or upstream?
18:35 <+seb128> pwnguin: you are welcome to open bugs with example, I don't think we get many complain about that at the moment
18:35 < pwnguin> would a link to a video be a good enough example, or should i upload an actual video?
18:35 <+seb128> I don't read a lot of mp4 myself but the ones I tried worked after installing the required codecs (which totem mades easy nowadays)
18:36 <+seb128> pwnguin: links are good enough
18:36 < pwnguin> its mostly google tech talks -- apparently they dropped ogg
18:36 <+seb128> next
18:36 <@jussi01> <marius> QUESTION: Are there any plans to implement an "Extract to..." and "Open Terminal Here" functions in the right click context menu?
18:36 <+seb128> marius: install nautilus-open-terminal and you will get the corresponding one
18:37 <+seb128> extract to is a file-roller wishlist, there is already an item to extract to the current directory, I'm not sure it makes sense to have a specific item to extract somewhere else
18:37 <+seb128> opening the software and clicking on extract is easy enough
18:37 <+seb128> next
18:37 <@jussi01>  <mbt> QUESTION:  Does the Desktop team only work with the main component, or does it work in the universe/multiverse as well?
18:38 <+seb128> we work on the Ubuntu default desktop, which is what you get when you try a desktop CD
18:38 <+seb128> the list of packages we track is https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
18:39 <+seb128> for universe packages that's up to the MOTUs
18:39 <+seb128> next
18:39 <@jussi01> <pwnguin> QUESTION: is it theoretically possible to unlock a gnome keyring without typing a password?
18:39 <+seb128> <seb128> pwnguin: pam integration works for standard logins but not autologin at the moment if that's the question
18:40 <+seb128> not sure of what is required to make it work with autologin
18:40 <+seb128> if somebody knows please let me know
18:40 < pwnguin> yikes
18:40 < pwnguin> two conversations in one window
18:40 <+seb128> I had a quick look before gutsy but didn't manage to get it working (it was opened a password entry on login)
18:41 <+seb128> and I've been too busy with other things to look at it
18:41 < pwnguin> im pretty sure the keyring encrypts your keys with a password
18:41 <@jussi01> <Quintasan> QUESTION: Are there any packages that manages mobile phones connected via Bluetooth or usb?
18:41 <+seb128> but patches are welcome
18:41 <@jussi01> oops. sorry
18:41 <+seb128> next
18:41 <+seb128> jussi01: that's ok ;-)
18:41 <@jussi01> :)
18:42 <+seb128> Quintasan: I don't know a lot about the bluetooth tools but you can have a look to gnome-bluetooth
18:42 <+seb128> I know that gnome-vfs-obexftp should be installed
18:42 < treb0re> wammu + gammu
18:42 <+seb128> but it has been suggested late for gutsy and we didn't manage to get it promoted to main and added to the desktop by default
18:43 <+seb128> but we will look into better bluetooth support in this cycle for pretty sure
18:43 <+seb128> next
18:43 <@jussi01>  <pwnguin> QUESTION: if compiz is enabled by default, does this open the possibility of installing 3d games by default?
18:43 <+seb128> mvo: ^ around? ;-)
18:44 <+seb128> pwnguin: the team working on compiz is not the desktop team at the moment, it has its specific group of people, but I think they are working to get everything working correctly
18:44 < pwnguin> ah
18:44 < sistpoty> pwnguin: these will hardly fit on the CDs, I guess (at least the one's that look and play really cool imho)
18:44 <+seb128> not sure if that's still the case but I think I read once they were considering switching the window manager before activating a 3d application
18:45 <+seb128> that was about compiz & 3d games
18:45 <+seb128> for the default installation that's not likely
18:45 <+seb128> there is no space on the CD for that as pointed by sistpoty
18:45 <+seb128> and no real candidate at the moment anyway
18:45 <+seb128> and that's not really a required feature
18:45 <+seb128> rather something you can install if you want
18:45 <+seb128> next
18:45 <@jussi01> <jussi01> QUESTION: does the desktop team deal with Kubuntu also? or is that separate
18:45 < sistpoty> oh, there were enough candidates imho... (slune for example), but no space :P
18:46 <+seb128> jussi01: no, the kubuntu team deal with kubuntu, we work on the standard Ubuntu GNOME desktop (packages on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs)
18:47 < lool> seb128: I was at dinner
18:47 <+seb128> lool: that's alright, just pointing desktop people which were around when we started the desktop team session
18:48 <+seb128> everybody, we need extra questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ;-)
18:48 < stelt> seb-128 , i had a question for Mark, but that didn't come through :-(
18:49 <+seb128> I'm not mark so I can't reply for him ;-)
18:49 <@jussi01> <Quintasan> QUESTION: Who decides what bookmarks added into Firefox by default in Ubuntu and Free Software links?
18:49 < stelt> seb128, no packaging is the subject?
18:50 <+seb128> Quintasan: no idea, firefox has its own team which is not the desktop one, you can ask to asac on IRC when he's around though or open a bug
18:50 <+seb128> I expect that's up to the Ubuntu firefox maintainer
18:50 < Quintasan> seb128: thanks i found those quite useful
18:50 <+seb128> and could be discussed on ubuntu-devel-list
18:50 <+seb128> if you have any suggestion for changes
18:50 <+seb128> next
18:50 <@jussi01> <pwnguin> QUESTION: is conference voip in ubuntu solid enough to replace IRC in the next open week?
18:50 <+seb128> stelt: feel free to ask desktop packaging questions in -chat if you want
18:51 < dholbach> *snort* with 316 people? :)
18:51 < pwnguin> think ambitious ;)
18:51 <+seb128> pwnguin: no idea, I don't know about voip a lot nor organize this week but I would expect IRC to be easier
18:51 <+seb128> for bandwith, noise, etc issues
18:52 < lool> It's more confortable to read up IRC async IMO
18:52 <+seb128> yes, I don't think voip would scale
18:52 <+seb128> so I would tend to say that IRC works fine there
18:52 <+seb128> next
18:52 <+seb128> come on people, we need extra questions
18:53 <+seb128> still 15 minutes in this session ;-)
18:53 <+seb128> nobody considering joining the team and having suggestions, questions, things to ask? ;-)
18:53 <@jussi01> <marius> QUESTION: Are there any plans to replace the default bittorrent client with a better one?
18:53 <+seb128> ah, interesting one
18:54 <+seb128> I don't use bittorent a lot and the default client seems to do the job
18:54 < marius> i have a lot of suggestions, I want to move to GNOME from KDE because it's faster....but I can't :( There are things I miss :(
18:54 <+seb128> but if there is some real bittorent users who things the default applications is not good and that we have better alternative please mail the ubuntu-desktop list with some rational
18:54 <+seb128> we are happy to consider changes if that can benefit to users
18:55 <+seb128> next
18:55 <@jussi01> <mbt> QUESTION:  Does the Desktop team work with the backports team(s) at all?
18:55 < marius> 10x :)
18:56 <+seb128> jussi01: no, I don't think there is real need for that at the moment, we update packages in the current version of the distribution and they work at making those available in backport when it makes sense
18:56 <+seb128> mbt: ^
18:56 <+seb128> if you think we should interact for a good reason you are welcome to let we know which one ;-)
18:56 <+seb128> we are open for questions and suggestions from the backport team though
18:57 <+seb128> and are happy to make changes that make their work easier if they make sense
18:57 <+seb128> next?
18:57 <@jussi01> <stelt> QUESTION: don't you think it would be smart to take packaging and easy installation to a broader scope? Any distro, any free program even on Windows, through one general, super-easy, super-available installer? see some ideas on http://freedomdrive.org (a strong name that i'd like to put to more use)
18:57 < Quintasan> <Solarion> QUESTION: are there plans to get a better disk/fstab manager?  There's currently none.  :(
18:58 <@jussi01> Quintasan: please dont
18:58 <+seb128> stelt: dunno about this project but there is autopackage and some other similar projects trying to go in this direction
18:58 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o Mez] by ChanServ
18:58 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+b %*!*@ayo104.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] by Mez
18:58 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o Mez] by ChanServ
18:58 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o Mez] by ChanServ
18:58 <+seb128> I don't think it really benefit users though
18:58 <+seb128> distribution packages are integrated, tested and known to be mostly working
18:59 <+seb128> encouraging users to try quick made package often create breakages and upgrade issues
18:59 <+seb128> next
18:59 <@jussi01>  <Quintasan> QUESTION: I heard that CNR (click and run) service form Lin/Free spire i avilable for Ubuntu, will it be included into any realase?
18:59 <+seb128> Quintasan: no idea about that
18:59 <+seb128> next
19:00 <@jussi01> <Solarion> QUESTION: are there plans to get a better disk/fstab manager?  There's currently none.  :(
19:00 <+seb128> jussi01: no concrete plan but we have one in dapper which was far from being optimal and that would be nice to get one before the next lts, maybe something to consider to work on this cycle
19:01 <+seb128> Solarion: ^
19:01 <+seb128> jussi01: sorry about the nick confusion ;-)
19:01 <+seb128> Solarion: if you have some ideas on the topic on want to work on it you are welcome to join the IRC chan or list and bring the subject there
19:01 <+seb128> next?
19:01 <@jussi01> <pwnguin> QUESTION: Does anyone on the team run with the default desktop settings?
19:02 < lool> pwnguin: I do!
19:02  * Martinp23 too!
19:02 < pwnguin> and you like it this way?
19:02 <+seb128> pwnguin: I can't speak for other people but I don't change a lot (tweak the panels, fonts, background and some other small things but that's basically it)
19:02 <+seb128> pwnguin: anything specific?
19:02 < pwnguin> well, two gnome panels comes to mind
19:03 <+seb128> there is no enough room on one
19:03 <+seb128> s/no/not
19:03 <+seb128> and we have no real interest to copy windows in the "one panel at the bottom" way
19:03 < pwnguin> well mines at the top :P
19:03 <+seb128> but there was a 2006 SoC on a panel profiles switcher applications
19:04 <+seb128> if somebody wants to pick up the work and get it integrated in Ubuntu that would be a good idea
19:04 <+seb128> having some default profiles, a standard GNOME one, a windows like one, and an Ubuntu one for example
19:04 <+seb128> next
19:04 <@jussi01> <Tesla-HETy> QUESTION: how tight is CD capacity for app picking?
19:05 <+seb128> Tesla-HETy: very, we try to fit on one CD and that's starting being really though, the CD was quite oversized before gutsy and we had to do quite some ugly packaging hacking to get it back on what is required
19:06 <+seb128> gimp-gnomevfs which was a tiny Depends is not on the gutsy desktop because of that
19:06 <+seb128> we did some packaging changes now though which should gave us some space
19:06 <+seb128> but there is nothing to waste there
19:06  * dholbach high-fives seb128
19:07 < dholbach> thanks seb128 and lool for this excellent Desktop Team session :-)
19:07 <+seb128> (especially than free space means extra translations on the CD)
19:07  * popey whispers "lose the mandela video"
19:07 <+seb128> next one and we are done then?
19:07  * seb128 hugs dholbach
19:07  * dholbach hugs seb128 back
19:07 <@jussi01> <Solarion> QUESTION: Do you maintain a janitors list like the linux-kernel, with simple projects for newbies?
19:07 <+seb128> what is a "janitors list"?
19:08 <+seb128> ah, easy tasks to contribute?
19:08 < Solarion> yes
19:08 < Solarion> http://janitor.kernelnewbies.org/
19:08 < dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO has a lot of easy tasks - most of them include tasks like updating packages, which will be part of the next session :-)
19:08 < Solarion> :)
19:08 <+seb128> what dholbach said
19:08 <+seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GettingStarted also
19:09 <+seb128> and https://edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+mentoring
19:09 <@jussi01> 1 more seb128 ?
19:09 <+seb128> jussi01: if you want
19:09 <@jussi01> <musashi1> QUESTION: not to be critical but speaking of default themes are there any thoughts or plans to do a really professional and attractive default theme - something to rival the "other" OSs?
19:09 <+seb128> that would an artwork team question ;-)
19:10 <+seb128> I know there is some discussion about artwork changes for hardy
19:10 <+seb128> I think the icon and GTK themes will get some work for the next lts
19:10 <+seb128> but I don't know details there
19:10 <+seb128> maybe dholbach knows? ;-)
19:10 < dholbach> no, but kwwii and ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com are the best points of contact there :)
19:11 < _MMA_> I just asked kwwii to pop in.
19:11 <+seb128> jussi01: thanks for copying the questions and moderating!
19:11 <+seb128> and thanks everybody for attending the session
19:11 <+seb128> and for the good questions ;-)
19:11 < Solarion> thanks seb128, jussi01
19:11 < dholbach> thanks seb128 and the DesktopTeam!
19:11 <+seb128> and see you soon on the desktop team chans and mailing lists ;-)