Technical_2006-05-09
10:12 Keybuk ok, shall we start at the top then
10:12 Keybuk sfllaw: you're proposed for ubuntu-core-dev
10:12 Keybuk and you're at the top of my list, so you get to go first :)
10:12 sfllaw Hmm... I don't know what to say outside of what I said to the Community Council.
10:12 sfllaw I've been a Debian Developer since April 2003. I'm upstream maintainer for a few pieces of software and package more that just those.
10:12 sfllaw I've been doing Ubuntu work for about two weeks now and have been steadily triaging through bug reports. I expect to do this for as long Canonical pays me and probably after that.
10:13 sfllaw Ask me questions.
10:13 sfllaw Please?
10:13 ogra will you pay us beer in paris ?
10:13 fabbione sfllaw: do you like beer?
10:13 ogra *lots* of beer ?
10:13 fabbione we love it :)
10:13 ogra :)
10:13 azeem ogra: there's no good beer in Paris, d'oh
10:13 sfllaw I do. I have a fondness for Qubec beers.
10:14 sfllaw And ones from a small University town in Waterloo.
10:14 fabbione +1 for sfllaw
10:14 ogra azeem, ah, damned, right its the wine country
10:14 Keybuk sfl: do you support the quebecistani separatist movement?
=== sivang prefers wine
10:14 bddebian Wow, two weeks of bug triaging? Can I apply then? :-)
10:14 mjg59 sfllaw: What will you be doing with main?
10:14 sfllaw Keybuk: I am apolitical.
10:14 ogra anothe +1 for sfllaw then :)
10:14 jbailey *lol*
10:14 jbailey Simon does cook *Very* well.
=== dholbach_ [n=daniel@i577B29F9.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:14 jbailey Even vegan food. =)
10:14 azeem sfllaw: is it true that you are part of a group which calls itself `THUG'?
10:14 highvoltage wine is not an emulator?
10:15 cbx33 The Hug User Group ?
10:15 Keybuk (For those just floating by, sfllaw works for Canonical and is in charge of Ubuntu QA)
10:15 mjg59 Could we have a little less in the way of background noise, please?
10:15 sfllaw mjg59: I hope to be sponsoring bugfixes into main, that I have vetted. As well, I hope to package various debugging tools that I will write. And, of course, to upload my own packages which I will maintain in parallel to my Debian ones.
10:15 mdz (sorry, was drawn into the kernel discussion in progress)
10:15 sfllaw azeem: I am no longer. We're now called CHUG.
10:16 mjg59 sfllaw: Which Debian packages do you maintain which would be appropriate for main? (or are we talking about universe here as well?)
10:16 sfllaw wvdial and wvstreams are the canonical examples.
10:17 ogra heya, what about tvtime ?
10:17 sfllaw Is that in main?
10:17 mdz no
10:17 sfllaw Sweet.
10:17 ogra nah
10:17 mdz ogra: he was answering mjg59's question
10:18 mjg59 sfllaw: wvdial isn't really (well, at all) integrated into the desktop right now. Do you have any interest in trying to improve the state of dialup?
10:18 sfllaw I do.
10:18 mjg59 Excellent. How? :)
10:18 sfllaw This weekend, I found the fix to the bug in WvStreams that hung autodetection.
10:18 Keybuk I'd be especially grateful of any dial-up integration assistance you could provide
10:18 mdz indeed, that is an area where we have known deficiencies due to Ubuntu developers having broadband :-P
10:18 sfllaw So that's a start.
10:18 Keybuk do you know much about ISDN?
10:18 sfllaw Sadly nothing about ISDN.
10:18 sfllaw I understand jbailey does.
10:18 sfllaw And he lives, like five minutes away.
10:19 mjg59 sfllaw: Other areas of interest include trying to improve winmodem setup and the like
10:19 mjg59 It'd be good to have that working to the legally practical extent
10:19 sfllaw That would excellent. I have to caution you that my primary responsibility is still QA.
10:19 mjg59 Obviously
10:19 sfllaw But I would be happy to work in this direction, as it's something I've wanted to do for WvDial for a while.
10:20 mdz sfllaw: I'd love to see a launchpad team devoted to dialup support, to which the relevant bugs could be directed
10:20 mdz I expect that if you sent out a call to the community, folks would join up
10:20 mdz teams are a good way to create a focal point for that kind of work
10:20 mjg59 sfllaw: On another note, wvdial isn't really the model of a modern UI - exposing things like "stupid mode" to the user is somewhat confusing :)
=== zakame would join, as he's on a winmodem
10:21 sfllaw mjg59: All I have to say in its defence is that it was excellent at the time it was written...
10:21 mdz (wvdial hasa UI?)
10:21 mjg59 sfllaw: I'm not going to disagree in the slightest
10:21 sfllaw WvDial has suffered from its age.
10:21 highvoltage a ui, probably not a gui :)
10:21 ivoks mdz: gnome-ppp
10:21 pitti does any country apart from Germany actually use it?
10:22 sfllaw I know people use it with IRDA and Bluetooth cellphones.
10:22 ivoks pitti: wvdial?
10:22 mdz pitti: ISDN or wvdial?
10:22 mjg59 Ok, I think I'm done. Anyone else?
10:22 sfllaw And that's in North America.
10:22 ogra ISDN
10:22 ivoks ISDN is popular in Croatia too
10:22 Mithrandir not that uncommon in .no either.
10:22 zakame ivoks: which fortunately I'm now ITA'ing in Debian atm
10:22 fabbione and in some parts of italy too
10:22 highvoltage and in south africa
10:22 Mithrandir (but I tend to solve the problem by throwing an ISDN router in between. :-)
10:22 highvoltage i'm connected with wvdial right now
10:23 mjg59 No, really, can we please focus on the agenda rather than veering off into unrelated tangents?
10:23 ivoks zakame: :)
10:23 sfllaw Any other questions?
10:23 mdz highvoltage: hmm, another dialup team member raises his hand ;-)
10:23 mjg59 mdz: Keybuk: Anything else?
10:23 crimsun sfllaw: this may not lie in the scope of bug hunting, but do you envision automating strace, backtraces, and the like?
10:23 mdz not from me
10:23 Keybuk nothing fro me
10:23 mdz votes?
10:23 Keybuk +1
10:24 mjg59 +1
10:24 sfllaw crimsun: I do.
10:24 fabbione +1
10:24 sfllaw I haven't yet written specs for these tools yet.
10:24 mdz +1 here based on Debian and Ubuntu involvement and high expectations ;-)
10:24 sfllaw But I've done similar things on a smaller scale.
=== dholbach congratulates sfllaw!
=== dholbach hugs sfllaw!
10:24 sfllaw mdz: Aww. That's so sweet of you.
=== sfllaw hugs dholbach
10:24 ogra yay sfllaw !!
10:24 dholbach yoooohoooooo!
10:24 zakame rock on sfllaw ! :D
10:24 sfllaw Thanks.
10:24 pitti mdz: ISDN
10:24 bddebian w00t sfllaw, the Official Task Master
10:24 ivoks i see you allready huged before :)
10:25 mjg59 fabbione: Dude, you don't seem to be on the tech board? :)
=== mvo [n=egon@p54A6492E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:25 cbx33 congrats sfllaw
10:25 pitti welcome sfllaw
=== jbailey ^5's Simon
=== dholbach points to the stand of sfllaw merchandise in the back.
10:25 sfllaw mjg59: When are those appointments coming up? Next week?
10:25 fabbione mjg59: so? i like sfllaw , is that a problem`??? :)
10:25 mjg59 sfllaw: Appointments?
=== sivang recommends not messing with fabbione
10:25 mdz fabbione: not a problem in itself, but it's confusing during the meeting :-)
10:26 mjg59 Ok. Who's up next?
10:26 Keybuk zul is next
10:26 Keybuk (for main)
10:26 zul ok..
10:26 mjg59 zul: Cool. Can you introduce yourself?
10:26 bddebian What the?..
10:26 zul my name is ChuckShort and I have been using linux in one form or another for the past 10 years
10:27 zul i been using ubuntu since hoary and i have been contributing since then as well.
10:27 zul i am a member of the kernel team where i been helping out with patches, external drivers, bug triaging and some support
10:28 zul i also helped out with the bug squad doing uploads to universe with various fixes, i also been trying to help out with grub as well
10:28 fabbione i can speak up as witness for zul work
10:28 highvoltage cool. chuck uses linux!
10:28 zul im also a member of the laptop team
10:28 fabbione at least for the kernel part
10:28 mdz zul has been a member of MOTU since September
10:28 bddebian highvoltage: :-)
10:29 fabbione he did quite a job...
10:29 mdz unless that's when we migrated into launchpad, in which case it's been longer ;-)
10:29 ogra and did a huge amount of fixes already
10:29 Keybuk you've certainly touched a fair number of packages
10:29 zul i also obeen bugging people about ubuntuce or embedded ubuntu
10:29 fabbione and Dear TC please approve zul so he can stop nagging me to be to a TC meeting :P
10:29 zul and i was at ubz as well
10:29 zul hehe
10:29 mjg59 zul: So, what would you be doing in main?
10:30 Keybuk zul: and what would you like to do in main?
10:30 Keybuk heh, snap
10:30 zul mdz: i done more work with bugzilla :)
10:30 fabbione anyway.. joking aside.. i think he can manage quality wise to keep up with our standards
10:30 zul i would like to continue with the kernel team, i want to help out maintain the dapper kernel once dapper has been released
10:30 fabbione and he has always been there
10:30 zul as well as varous bugfixing and vetting bug fixes into main
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
10:31 zul oh yeah i was also a gentoo developer where I maintained apache for gentoo before i got burned out
10:31 mdz zul: what do you think we can do to help effectively triage kernel bugs? it is one of the highest volumes of new bugs we have
10:32 zul mdz: basically keep doing what i have been doing asking questions and providing test modules for users to try
10:33 sfllaw zul: Hmm. Could we go beyond that? Looking at our bug triage rates, we're slipping behind the rate of bug filing.
10:33 zul for example if user has a problem with the sky2 module i would try to find a patch or create a patch and put it somewhere where users can try it out
10:33 zul sfllaw: true
10:33 mdz zul: it seems that at present, there are many bugs which do not even see a response (e.g., reports which need to be asked for more info), I'm referring to that problem more so than getting the bugs fixed
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:33 zul sfllaw: i havent had a chance to look a lot of kernel bugs because of real life commitments recently
10:34 zul but in the past i try to be as prompt as possible
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10:35 mdz BenC: we're discussing zul's application, and in the process, the question of how to address the problem of kernel bug triage
10:35 BenC should I address zul or kernel bugs first?
10:36 BenC my comments on kernel bugs will probably me much more lengthy :)
10:36 zul mdz: i think the amount of volume of kernel bugs that we have now are old stale bug reports that users never get back to us
10:36 mdz BenC: zul; in fact we should probably defer the other conversation until later in the meeting after applications are processed
10:36 zul ok not a problem
10:37 BenC ok, in regards to zul, he's worked quite a bit with the kernel team
10:37 BenC for the most part, he is very capable of handling the technical, and social aspects of working with the team. Always asks questions when he needs to and is receptive to comments and criticism
10:38 bddebian zul has been helping quite a bit with Universe bugs too
10:38 ogra and with grub iirc
10:38 BenC I've only had a few occasions to comment on his work, but after talking with him about the issues, he's produced better work, so his willingness to learn is definitely there
10:39 BenC zul: are you paying me by the word, or just for the end result? :)
10:39 fabbione BenC: LOL
10:39 zul lol
10:40 zul end result..*ssh* :)
10:40 mdz mjg59,Keybuk: any further questions?
10:40 mdz I would like to talk about kernel bugs, but later
10:40 zul as BenC said i am very willing to learn and i think i have come a long way from where I started
10:40 Keybuk none for me
10:40 mjg59 No, I'm good
10:40 mdz ok, votes
10:41 mjg59 +1 from me
10:41 mdz +1, strong recommendations all around and substantial body of good quality contributions
10:41 Keybuk +1
10:41 mdz zul: congratulations and welcome
10:41 dholbach congratulations zul!
=== pitti hugs zul
10:41 fabbione zul: welcome to hell!
10:41 zul wohoo...thanks..
=== fabbione grins
=== sfllaw hugs zul.
10:41 sfllaw Welcome to the club!
10:41 zul fabbione: been there done that
=== highvoltage shakes zul's hand
=== zul does a jig
10:42 mdz there was one more applicant, yes?
10:42 Keybuk and last up (for main) we have zakame
10:42 BenC zul: cash, no checks
10:42 Keybuk thanks for being patient :)
10:42 zul BenC: beer good?
10:42 Keybuk mdz: gah, stop clicking before me <g>
10:42 BenC beer and marlboros :)
10:42 zul hehe
10:42 ogra yay zul :)
10:43 mdz Keybuk: you approved sfllaw for the wrong team :-P
=== Bluekuja [n=andrea@ubuntu/member/bluekuja] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:43 zakame way to go zul! :D
10:43 mdz zakame: you're up next
10:43 sfllaw mdz: I don't mind. Add me to more.
10:43 zakame ok
10:43 Seveas sfllaw: collecting emblems?
10:43 Keybuk mdz: I did? I approved him for both
10:44 mdz Keybuk: I did -core-dev, and then you did -dev
10:44 Keybuk well, I approved him for -dev on the basis you did -core-dev
10:44 Keybuk right
10:44 bddebian w00t zul
10:44 Keybuk zakame: would you like to introduce yourself?
10:44 mdz -core-dev implies membership in -dev
10:44 mdz anyway, right
10:45 Keybuk mdz: it does, but then I always figure that -core-dev may be lost without losing -dev ... so people should be in both, in case they resign from main but stay on in universe *shrug*
10:45 ogra why wasnt he in -dev ?
10:45 zakame Yes, I'm ZakElep, currently fixing bug 6548 as I write this :)
10:45 Ubugtu Malone bug 6548 in gxmms "Panel Icon is Missing [gxmms-bmp] (Dapper)" [Normal,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/6548
10:45 ogra as an all time uploader
10:45 mdz ogra: sfllaw
10:45 ogra oh
10:45 ogra k
=== ogra should stop fiddling with liveCDs during meetings
10:46 sfllaw ogra: You're working too hard. :)
10:46 ogra :P
10:46 BenC FYI, I am typing up some notes on kernel bugs, so when we are ready to discuss, someone just ping me so I can lay it out
10:46 sfllaw zakame: You should probably tell us more about your application.
10:46 mdz BenC: ok
10:47 mdz zakame: tell us about what you have been working on so far, and what you would hope to do as a core developer
10:47 zakame I have been on the Ubuntu team since October 2005, and since then I have been working on various things for the distro, including translations, bug fixing and triage, and now I feel that its time for me to up the ante by working on doing and coding feature specs for ubuntu :)
10:48 zakame sfllaw, mdz: sorry, my dialup's laggy :/
10:48 Keybuk and what in main particularly irks or interests you, that you would like to work on?
10:48 Keybuk . o O { dial-up support? :p }
10:48 bddebian heh
10:49 zakame I have been noticing the comments on bugs lately in the devel list, and as a result I have been reasearching for putting together a 'smart' bug reporting tool
=== mdz murmurs something about dh_iconcache...
10:49 ogra the famous dholbach_iconcache :)
10:49 sivang hehe
10:50 zakame yes, I am also doing work for DhIconCacheChanges, currently in Universe, but I would like to help on main too :D
=== bddebian too
10:51 zakame and yes, DialUpSupport too, as I have said earlier... I'm on a linuxant right now using the free liceense, and yes, 'tis a bit crappy doing work under a 14.4, but still it works
10:51 mdz zakame: what sort of features do you have in mind for main?
=== sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:53 sabdfl erk
10:54 sabdfl sorry, i thought we were on at 23h00 UTC
10:54 zakame mdz: lots; for some, I would like it to have better support for non-broadband users like me,
10:54 zakame hi sabd
10:54 mdz sabdfl: zakame was just telling us how he would like to spec out how to improve out-of-the-box dialup support in Ubuntu
10:54 sabdfl sounds good!
10:55 mdz zakame: have you made any sponsored uploads to main?
10:55 zakame mdz: I also want it to have better printing preferences imrpovements; there has been some cases other users have pointed me on, since I'm the debian packager for gtklp
10:55 sabdfl i realised the meeting was underway when I got to the LP mails telling me sfllaw was a new dev - welcome aboard :-)
10:55 sivang LOL
10:56 sabdfl zakame: are you tracking upstream's plans for gtk printing prefs?
10:56 zakame mdz: none at the moment, but I have pending debdiffs to upload for dh_iconcache
10:56 Keybuk sabdfl: tsk, ignoring your IRC pings, eh? :)
10:57 sfllaw sabdfl: Thanks!
10:57 ogra LP needs a ping interface :)
10:58 mdz zakame: are you a Debian developer?
10:58 zakame sabdfl: not yet, sorry, as in between doing ubuntu work I am also doing some real life stuff teaching for our summer camp :)
10:58 sivang ogra: an SMS interface :)
10:58 highvoltage hmmm.. a meeting reminder thingy would be nice... perhaps a fridge function instead?
10:58 zakame mdz: I am currently on the NM queue waiting foran NM
10:58 zakame err AM
10:58 pitti highvoltage: it's already there, subscribe to the fridge calendar
10:58 BenC zakame: Good luck with that :)
10:58 mdz sabdfl: I've mailed you a copy of the log for zakame prior to your arrival
10:59 zakame sabdfl: I have been looking on the printing specs on LP though, but I haven't considered them fully
10:59 zakame BenC: thanks
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11:02 mdz zakame: most of the work that I've seen of yours has been high-volume but trivial changes, like dh_iconcache and syncs from Debian. The former is mostly a large one-time transition, and the latter doesn't require any upload privileges. Can you tell us what motivated you to apply for upload privileges to main? what do you plan to upload?
11:03 sabdfl hey raphink, great work with KDE at LinuxTag
11:03 raphink thanks sabdfl :)
11:04 sabdfl zakame: would you be willing to avoid a core set of packages initially (stuff that might directly affect install or boot?)
11:06 zakame sabdfl: if it is too intrusive, yes
11:06 sabdfl zakame: can you give me an example of "too intrusive"?
11:06 sabdfl and how would you get a non-intrusive change reviewed?
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11:08 Keybuk I'm not sure I'm happy with that idea ... if someone isn't ready to touch anything in main, they should stay in universe
11:08 Keybuk being able to upload to main is because you can be trusted to work on packages that directly affect install and boot
11:09 sivang Keybuk: one specific package comes into my mind ;-)
11:09 mdz Keybuk: I agree; it's as much work to make that decision on a per-package bases as to review and sponsor the uploads
11:09 sabdfl Keybuk: i don't know i think it's worth having guys who are confident to work quickly on light-touch issues
11:09 zakame I see... ok, I suppose I will hold on thatfor now :)
11:10 sabdfl i think its possible to exercise good judgement on that front
11:10 sabdfl not commenting on zakame per se but i think if someone has energy, good judgement, and a good track record in MOTU then it's worth giving them the opportunity
11:11 Keybuk if someone has a good track record in MOTU, then I generally don't see any obstacle for main upload
=== rikai [n=kitty@pool-72-65-103-151.ptldme.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:11 Keybuk we're sliding away from the point here, however
11:11 Keybuk anyone got any further questions for zakame?
11:11 mjg59 zakame: Do you feel not having main upload privileges is currently preventing you from doing things you want to do?
11:12 sabdfl zakame: can you list any bugs you would be confident to fix and upload to main?
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:14 sabdfl ok, zakame, i think you need to come back in early edgy
11:15 sabdfl zakame: also, try picking out some fixes to main issues and running those past sfllaw
11:15 Keybuk sabdfl: a -1 from you then?
11:15 sabdfl as debdiffs
11:15 sabdfl Keybuk: yes, for now
11:15 Keybuk other votes? mdz? mjg59?
11:15 mjg59 I'd agree with Mark for the moment
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:15 sabdfl i like zakame's style but think i'd like to see examples of main patches beforehand
11:15 zakame zakame: thanks :D
11:16 mdz I would prefer to see zakame working with a core dev to sponsor uploads, to get some substantial experience and review there
11:16 sabdfl zakame: keep track of all the work you do in universe too, so you can point us at a neat list
11:16 Keybuk I agree also; I'm happy with zakame's work so far, but would like to see more "non-trivial" uploads to his name before approving him for main
11:16 Keybuk sabdfl: LP does that for us :) https://launchpad.net/people/zakame/+packages this LP thing is great, you should try it out! :D
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:17 zakame sabdfl: of course, I shall do so in my wikipage :)
11:17 mdz zakame: would you be willing to start on your proposed work in main through a sponsor, and reapply at a later date?
11:17 fabbione zakame: show this guys some balls and help me with X
11:17 fabbione ;)
11:18 zakame mdz: yes, I'd be happy to :D
11:18 sabdfl Keybuk: pity about the UI, the guy who did that must suck ;-p
11:18 zakame fabbione: I take it you will be my sponsor :D
11:18 sabdfl looks perfect!
11:18 sabdfl who's up next?
11:18 Keybuk sabdfl: it's improving all the time, imo
11:18 fabbione zakame: if you are ready tio sweat yes
11:18 zul sabdfl: i think thats it
11:19 zakame fabbione: I'm on it then :D
11:19 mdz zakame: glad to hear it, thanks
11:19 sabdfl hey zul - benc has been telling me about your great work on the kernel
=== yosch [n=yosch@lns-bzn-55-82-255-158-47.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:19 mdz that's it for core
11:19 mdz are there MOTU applicants pending?
11:19 zul sabdfl: thanks its nice to hear
11:19 fabbione zakame: cool
11:19 zakame mdz: it's no problem for me:) I take it as a good lesson to look back to :)
11:19 mdz sabdfl: funny you should mention it...
11:20 mdz ah, you got the mail already of course
11:21 Keybuk mdz: none that I can see
11:21 mdz there are 15 pending applications for ubuntu-dev
11:21 mdz but most of them are old
11:21 mdz if anyone is here to apply, please speak up
11:21 sivang I am
11:21 sivang sorry, been away form the machine
11:22 Keybuk I could swear I got an e-mail about sivang today
11:22 Keybuk yet LP shows he applied 2005-10-04
11:22 sivang I reapplied today
11:22 sivang so this makes sense
11:22 sivang can I go on?
11:22 mdz LP bug?
11:22 mdz sivang: yes, go ahead
11:23 sivang mdz: don't think so :)
11:23 sivang anyways,
11:23 sivang I am Sivan Greenberg,
11:23 sivang been with Ubuntu since roughly october 2004 (before warty)
11:23 Keybuk dholbach: can you mail Peter Norman Greenfield and do your reminding them that they need to show up at TB meetings thing? And probably that he needs to work with the MOTU before applying
11:23 sivang since done I have done a long way in my view,
=== BenC_ [n=bcollins@72.169.114.90] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:24 sivang I have started with documentation , slowly but surely learning the development ways in ubuntu. Although my universe record is not that big, I have done some non trivial patches and mofications for packages in main
11:24 Keybuk sivang: you're certainly a face we're used to seeing on the channels
11:24 sivang like:
11:24 sivang gnome-cups-manager
11:24 sivang gnome-system-tools
11:24 sivang system-tools-backends
11:24 dholbach Keybuk: I mailed all of the guys.
11:24 sivang irssi
11:24 highvoltage oooh, irssi
11:24 dholbach Keybuk: I'll try to make sure to give all of them a month to answer and if they don't we can drop them from the list.
11:25 sivang liblpint-bonobo - the launch[pad integration library for bonobo
11:25 sivang (for this I created the lib itself, packaging was done by someone else)
11:25 sivang and recently created the package for my python application,
11:25 sivang based on the specifciation from UBZ HomeUserBackup (hubackup in universe)
11:25 Keybuk You've even touched sysvinit, iirc?
11:26 sivang indeed
11:26 sivang ;-)
11:26 ogra Keybuk, sivang was lacking packaging knowledge for quite some time but did awesome work on patches, recently he jumped on MOTU and also does packages now
11:26 Keybuk who sponsored that one for you, ooi?
11:26 sivang and I will never forget what you said wrt to my patch there :)
11:26 Keybuk what did I say?
=== ogra cheers for sivang ...
=== sivang tries to recall the exact phrase
11:26 sabdfl sivang: have you worked closely with any MOTU developers or core devs in particular?
11:26 Keybuk (I'm entirely aware it may be me who sponsored it ... my memory is not what it was)
11:27 sivang sabdfl: yes, pitti, seb128, mvo, and recently slomo who helped me get my pakcage in universe
=== ogra remembers sivang working with pitti, dholbach, mvop
11:27 sivang bddebian also helepd with reviews
11:27 pitti yep, I uploaded several fixes from Sivan
11:27 sivang I also worked with pitti on the DB2 packaging, even sent a couple of patches
11:28 dholbach I had a look at hupbackup, but somebody else took it to improve and upload after me.
11:28 sivang Keybuk: never patch debian/. using the patch system, (or from within debian.) IIRC ? is that so? :)
11:28 Keybuk ahh
11:28 Keybuk I get quite passionate about that :)
11:28 sabdfl i'm certainly convinced of sivang's commitment, but can't comment on packaging skills. pitti, mvo, seb128?
11:28 sivang Keybuk: indeed :)
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11:29 sivang oh, and just today I Helped slomo with tray icons transpernacy patches,
11:29 sivang which are still pending review at http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/tray_icon/
11:29 pitti from my experience, Sivan learns slowly, but steadily; he is cautious and I trust him to not do stuff he's unsure about without asking
11:29 seb128 I think that sivang has some good willing but still lot to learn too ...
11:30 pitti and his enthusiasm is remarkable
11:30 Keybuk any further questions for sivang?
11:30 Keybuk mdz, mjg59 ?
11:30 mdz yes
11:31 sivang ALl I can say my performance in studying will be much improved from now on, I feel I am really managing to tackle things more neatly and quickly then before. I guess that comes over time of experience on the project.
11:31 sabdfl +1 from me for sivang then
11:31 mdz sivang: while developing your backup application, you waited a long time before uploading your packages, rather than developing them incrementally within Ubuntu. why did you choose this approach?
11:32 mdz in a collaborative project, it is important to work transparently, by making your work visible throughout the development process
11:33 sivang mdz: looking back, I feel I had been a bit harsh on myself. I felt it was not appropriate to release the project to the wild in the condition it was then. regardless of that, I registered the branch in LP and tried to interest other memebers of the team (community wise) in the project, but did not get too much resonse.
11:34 sivang mdz: again, the branch was available and viewable, even through LP's revision control
11:34 sivang https://launchpad.net/people/sivan/+branch/hubackup/devel-main
11:34 mdz very few people will go to your LP page and check out a bzr branch, compared to having a package in universe
11:35 mdz the "release early, release often" mantra is key to what we do
11:35 sivang I agree, this is correct. Feeling it was not appropriate at that time to put in as a package in universe, I approached people or respoded to peopel who showed interest in the specificaiton. This might have been a mistake.
11:35 highvoltage mdz: sorry for asking a possibly off-topic and ignorant question, but shouldn't a package be of a certain quality first before it goes into universe?
=== Keybuk hides ... I can't really comment here ... I never upload anything I work on until I'm happy with it <g>
11:36 raphink highvoltage: this is why REVU exists
11:36 sabdfl highvoltage: that's why we need.... Personal Package Archives! Coming SOON to a Launchpad near YOU
11:36 highvoltage yay!
11:36 Keybuk sabdfl: are they? \o/
11:36 sivang mdz: I was not happy with the application until it fulfilled it's main functionaly. when it did so, I released the package to universe.
11:36 sabdfl Keybuk: sure, ask Kinnison
11:36 mdz highvoltage: it should have a basic level of functionality; it does not need to be feature complete or bug-free
11:36 sivang (including the important bits)
11:36 Keybuk exxxxcellent, one of the remaining blockers for HCT that
=== Keybuk shall send a sarcastic mail to mbp for not keeping him updated <g>
11:37 zakame sabdfl: coolness!
11:37 mdz sivang: you asked for your package to be included in the release, even though it had not been uploaded yet (meaning you did not feel it was ready for people to even test yet)
11:37 sivang mdz: dealing with application that can screw one's home folder and CDs I felt proper testing should be done prior and after completing the main functionality.
11:37 sabdfl can we come to a decision on sivang?
11:37 sabdfl sivang: reasonable - did you publish it outside the archive?
11:38 sivang sabdfl: outside the bzr branch you mean?
11:38 sabdfl yes, as debs people could test
11:39 sivang mdz: I believed I could make it for this release, I admit I had wrong esitmated the time to reach the the point where it could be presented to people. assuming so without publishing debs for testing was wrong, that's true.
11:39 sivang sabdfl: no :-/
11:39 sivang sabdfl: for intersted people, I instructed to bzr branch it, and then test it.
11:40 mdz sivang: thanks for the explanation; I wanted to understand your thinking because you seemed confused about why it couldn't be included
11:40 mdz sivang: I've seen now that it's in universe, you're already getting good feedback
11:40 sivang mdz: I believe I was, I was too optimistic about how much time would need to get from one milestone to the other, which flawed my judgment.
11:41 sivang mdz: I know more then know how every small detail in a spec, can result in days of implementation. this fact should be of warning for us.
11:41 mdz I'm finished with my questions
11:41 sivang (now)
11:41 sivang mdz: yes, I did got some nic feedback and interest
11:42 mdz votes regarding sivang for ubuntu-dev?
11:42 sabdfl +1
11:42 mdz +1
11:42 Keybuk +1 from me
11:43 sivang mdz: (the gui needs more work, though :p)
11:43 mjg59 +1, yes
11:43 ogra yay, welcome sivang
11:43 pitti sivang: congratulations! you have waited so long :)
11:43 mdz sivang: welcome to the team
=== sivang faints
11:43 zakame congrats sivang!
=== mvo congrats sivang
11:43 ogra yeah, well deserved after all this time
11:43 lifeless congrats sivang
11:44 sabdfl well done sivang
=== ogra remembers talking to sivang about maintainership in mataro :)
=== sivang takes some time to relax the excitment and comes back to hug everyone
11:44 sabdfl i remember your excitement in mataro!
=== sivang hugs all
11:44 sabdfl it's been a great road so far
=== sivang thanks all
11:44 highvoltage congrats sivang
11:44 Keybuk I think that's everybody now?
11:44 sabdfl very well done
11:44 sivang sabdfl: been amazing road!
11:44 ogra yeah, well done
11:44 mdz Keybuk: yes, and we've run long already
11:44 sivang thanks all fo the cherring, and thanks mdz for the more then in place questions
11:44 mdz any last-minute business to discuss?
11:45 sivang pitti: thank you!
11:45 sabdfl is ubuntu-dev a member of ubuntumembers yet?
11:45 ogra didnt BenC want to discuss kernel bug handling ?
11:45 mdz after the TB meeting is adjourned, we're going to have a discussion about kernel QA on #ubuntu-kernel with BenC & co.
11:45 sabdfl looks like it isn't
11:45 ogra ah
11:45 ogra :)
11:45 BenC ok
11:45 mdz sabdfl: is that what the CC resolved?
11:45 sivang ogra: we also talked about that you need to understand the make file language hand by hand :)
11:45 sabdfl i believe so, yes
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11:45 ogra sivang, hehe, yes
11:46 sabdfl in other words, this group should also be considering substantial-and-sustained contribution
11:46 sabdfl but i think that's implicit, even for ubuntu-dev
11:46 sabdfl as sivang just found out :-)
11:46 dholbach good night
11:46 ogra night dholbach
11:46 sivang sabdfl: :-)
11:46 mvo night dholbach
11:46 zakame gn8 dholbach
11:46 sabdfl night all
11:46 pitti bye folks
11:46 highvoltage good night!
11:46 seb128 'night dholbach
11:46 zakame bye all
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11:46 mdz sabdfl: I wasn't present and haven't read the log yet, but if that was their decision, I'm happy for ubuntu-dev to be added to ubuntu-members
11:47 sabdfl done
11:48 sabdfl i'd like to do this for any team which has a robust structure and leadership
11:48 sabdfl and in the case of large groups, like the forums, governance
11:49 mdz ok
11:49 mdz we've been here long enough :-)
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11:49 mdz adjourned, thanks everyoneMeetingLogs/Technical_2006-05-09 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:27:01 by localhost)