Desktop_2005-11-25
05:00 dholbach Hi everybody! 05:01 dholbach can everybody, who is here for the Desktop Team meeting state their name? === dholbach is Daniel Holbach 05:01 Nafallo ChristianBjlevik === seb128 is Sebastien Bacher 05:01 dholbach i see 05:02 dholbach that gives the meeting a more cozy atmosphere 05:02 dholbach shall we wait a minute or two? :) === Simira [n=rpGirl@c51008D91.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo is Sebastian Drge === ogra is OliverGrawert 05:02 dholbach hi Simira 05:02 dholbach hub excuses himself 05:02 Simira hi there. I seemed to have dropped into a meeting 05:02 ogra where is our jdub ? 05:03 dholbach Simira: we were just about to start, interested in the desktop team meeting? 05:03 dholbach ogra: good question - some of us ask that ourselves for some days now ;) 05:03 seb128 ogra: probably sleeping 05:03 Simira dholbach : not really, I'm on a workshop with another job ;) 05:03 seb128 I've spoken with him on IRC 2 days ago 05:03 seb128 he still have no DSL 05:03 dholbach Simira: i see === MarioMeyer is Mario Meyer 05:03 ogra dholbach, i know he got a new DSL line which was delayed ... but thats a info from beginning of last week 05:04 dholbach ok === lllmanulll is Manu Cornet === dholbach knows those problems 05:04 ogra who doesnt :) 05:04 dholbach did vuntz say anything? :) 05:04 seb128 vuntz: ping 05:04 dholbach he just said, he wanted to have the announce on the fridge ;) 05:04 dholbach maybe that's why he didnt turn up :) 05:05 dholbach ok... let's get going anyways 05:05 dholbach seb128 and i were wondering, how we can put more life into the desktop team 05:06 dholbach while the announce ot the team itself was a success (look at the bunch of people, and especially upstream people that are in the channel), we thought we might promote the idea a bit more 05:06 dholbach we started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/MeetingIdeas with a bunch of ideas 05:07 dholbach i personally felt, that we might need a bit more of organisation and places to point people to, where they could help out, since the observation "seb128 does GNOME all alone" is kind of wrong ;) 05:07 dholbach i hope we can all agree on that :) 05:08 seb128 yeah 05:08 Nafallo sure, it's seb128 and dholbach now ;-) 05:08 seb128 lol 05:08 dholbach haha :) 05:08 MarioMeyer lol 05:08 seb128 one to break stuff, the other one to fix 05:08 Nafallo lol 05:08 seb128 and we switch every week :p 05:08 dholbach we switch every day to keep it exciting 05:08 dholbach or well... :) 05:08 seb128 ;) 05:09 dholbach do you have any thoughts on this? 05:09 ogra i think the prob is that the desktop is in main ... 05:09 Nafallo better start making random switches for even more excitement :-) 05:09 dholbach initiatives we could start, things you'd expect from the team, ... 05:09 seb128 and? 05:09 ogra its not as easy as getting your hands on universe packages 05:09 dholbach ogra: do you think it'd help to state clearly, that we're happy to sponsor uploads until people are ready for main? 05:09 ogra people wont just jump on packages that are in main like they do for universe packages 05:10 seb128 you can bug triage, have nice idea, package new stuff, send patches, do artwork (hey lllmanulll), etc 05:10 ogra dholbach, absolutely 05:10 dholbach ogra: ok, maybe we should make that clearer 05:10 lllmanulll Hey :) 05:10 ogra dholbach, not clearer, but more public .... shout it out to the world :) === dholbach makes a note :) 05:11 lllmanulll I'll ask you guys about the stuff I did yesterday in a while, if there's nothing else to talk about :p 05:11 dholbach i thought, that maybe with a bit more of organisation (like description of workflow, ie: what to do, when upgrading a package, ...) might help with that too (to lower the entry point) === vuntz_ [n=vuntz@volin.imag.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:12 dholbach hey vuntz_ 05:12 dholbach vuntz_: we started without you already 05:12 seb128 hi vuntz_ 05:12 vuntz_ hi 05:12 vuntz_ sorry for being late 05:12 dholbach what would you all like to see from the desktop team? or do in the desktop team? === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-244.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:13 dholbach does the MeetingIdeas page give you ideas, answer questions? === mvo michael vogt and late 05:13 ogra what is " own Wiki table (apart from UniverseCandidates" ? 05:14 dholbach ogra: ah yes... i wanted to have a gnome/ubuntu-desktop specific table of stuff we take care of and we want to see ASAP 05:14 ogra does that mean NEW sftware or software that should move into the default desktop ? 05:14 dholbach might move into the default desktop at some stage 05:14 ogra ah, yes 05:14 dholbach for example marlin (a sound editor) is still bumpy, but i'd really like to see it - so if we as a team could try to get it in (and working together with upstream), that'd be great === dholbach feels like in the UbuntuAndUpstream-BOF again. 05:15 ogra heh 05:16 dholbach so you all see everything you want from the desktopteam going already? :) 05:17 dholbach once we're big enough as a team, we could even take more care of the gnome part of universe 05:17 vuntz_ well, I think the team just needs a bit more organization, but in the end, we don't want too much organization (I guess) 05:17 dholbach vuntz_: it does, i agree with you 05:18 dholbach vuntz_: can you think of something that should be better defined? === BenC [n=bcollins@richmond-209-163-125-167.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:19 dholbach seb128: do you think the point about making the desktop specs more "accessible" to people from the desktop team makes sense? 05:19 vuntz_ dholbach: have permanent links of bugs to triage 05:19 vuntz_ dholbach: have lists of easy bugs to fix 05:19 dholbach vuntz_: yeah, that'd be great 05:19 vuntz_ lists of easy tasks to do 05:19 seb128 dholbach: how accessible? 05:20 vuntz_ it's also a matter of showing that it's easy to contribute :-) 05:20 dholbach seb128: 'accessible' like bits of specs, where people can help out 05:20 seb128 we started alist of tasks 05:20 dholbach vuntz_: ++ 05:20 dholbach yeah, i think that's a good start 05:20 dholbach did everybody know about DesktopTeam/TODO? :) 05:20 ogra nope 05:20 vuntz_ not me 05:20 seb128 I put some stuff here which would be useful 05:20 seb128 than we want to do 05:20 seb128 but what we don't do yet because we are too busy 05:21 seb128 ie: stuff nice to contribute 05:21 seb128 like splitting totem to make a mozilla binary package :) 05:21 Nafallo nope 05:21 Nafallo and getting the menuicon back :-P 05:21 seb128 ? === Nafallo hides* 05:21 seb128 we have no such bug 05:21 lllmanulll I agree about the "easy things to do", and with this kind of list, I would certainly contribute much more :) 05:21 dholbach ReturnOfTheMenuIcons-BOF :) 05:21 vuntz_ hey lllmanulll :-) 05:22 Nafallo seb128: I haven't filed it yet :-) 05:22 seb128 lllmanulll: I've a special task for you, you started on it 05:22 seb128 lllmanulll: the new gnome-session logout dialog seems a perfect job for you :) 05:22 ogra what about "ship activeX control dlls with wine" *g* 05:22 vuntz_ also, I'm wondering how much the desktop team should work with upstream 05:22 vuntz_ ie, how much new development should be done 05:22 ogra i guess wine will enter main at some point ... 05:22 lllmanulll seb128: All right, perfect :) 05:23 seb128 lllmanulll: you really want to work on this? would be great 05:23 vuntz_ (or if it's a "package, triage bugs & fix bugs" team) 05:23 seb128 lllmanulll: that's probably much easier than the add to panel 05:24 dholbach vuntz_: the development depends on how much people are contributing 05:24 lllmanulll seb128: No problem 05:24 seb128 rock 05:24 vuntz_ dholbach: right :-) 05:24 lllmanulll seb128: I guess it would be quite easy, yeah 05:24 dholbach vuntz_: if somebody wants to hack gnome-panel to do $SOMETHING_CRAZY, we could push it into ubuntu to get people testing it and we'd contribute it upstream - i think that makes sense 05:25 mvo in general we do not too much development. but some HIG experts would be very welcome IMO :) 05:25 dholbach (as an example) 05:25 lllmanulll seb128: Huh, let me make sure : it's just a very simple dialog with four or five buttons with icons, and "OK" and "Cancel", right ? :) 05:25 Nafallo mvo++ 05:25 dholbach mpt is unfortunately in holidays 05:25 dholbach i think he'd have had some ideas on this 05:25 dholbach i just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/NewSoftware 05:25 vuntz_ seb128/lllmanulll: note that markmc wanted to move the dialog to the panel 05:25 seb128 lllmanulll: let's discuss that later on -desktop, but that's a real panel with 2 areas for the 2 kinds of actions (like windows has 2 buttons) and the icons here to do that 05:26 seb128 vuntz_: what dialog? accept lllmanulll's work upstream? 05:26 vuntz_ seb128: logout dialog 05:26 seb128 oh, ok 05:26 seb128 doesn't matter where the code is 05:26 seb128 :) 05:27 seb128 yeah 05:27 seb128 I agree with mvo 05:27 seb128 an usuability team would rock 05:27 dholbach did you all know about UsabilityWishlist? 05:27 seb128 somebody to ping when you get usuability/HIG bugs and I've not clue about this 05:27 lllmanulll dholbach: Huh, no 05:27 dholbach :) 05:27 seb128 not "no clue", but are not good at designing :) 05:27 Nafallo dholbach IS the wiki-master :-) 05:28 mvo usability team++ 05:28 lllmanulll Yeah 05:28 lllmanulll But that's a lot of teams :) Couldn't usability issues be given to the Desktop team ? Or is this a totallly weird idea ? :) 05:29 dholbach a subteam, like some people who "have a clue" and enjoy doing HIG/usabilty? 05:29 mvo yeah, let's make it only one team for now 05:29 dholbach i met a guy here in berlin, who'd enjoy working on this 05:30 dholbach as ogra said: we should raise awareness of the team 05:30 lllmanulll I would love working on usability issues too 05:30 dholbach i think there are a lot of people using ubuntu, who would care about the desktop and love working on this 05:30 seb128 would be nice to have a different list or something like GNOME guys do 05:30 seb128 so you can Cc: usuability-list on a bug to get their opinion 05:31 dholbach sounds good, as soon as we have some more people for this 05:32 dholbach shall we start DesktopTeam/Organisation and dump our ideas there? 05:32 dholbach as we don't have a gobby session here ;) 05:32 Nafallo why don't we? :-) 05:33 dholbach because the wiki saves stuff more securely than gobby? :-p 05:33 ogra bah === ogra will write a main inclusion report for gobby over the weekend and add it to edubuntu-desktop :p 05:34 Nafallo oki. I have only used it once so... ;-) 05:34 Nafallo ogra: yay! :-) 05:34 dholbach Nafallo: it trashed a couple of specs at UBZ :) 05:35 ogra dholbach, thats a user error :) 05:35 mvo ogra: ... 05:35 dholbach yeah, sorry, it was my mistake to not save every minute :) 05:35 Nafallo hehe 05:35 ogra *grin* 05:36 Nafallo ogra: implement auto-saving before MainInclusion to make it dholbach-friendly aswell? :-) 05:36 ogra hehe 05:36 dholbach https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Organisation 05:37 ogra Nafallo, if $USER == 'somekindofholbach' autosave on ? 05:37 Nafallo lol 05:37 mvo ogra: will you fix "close button closes on all clients without saving and asking" too first? 05:37 dholbach IS_DHOLBACH_USING_THIS=1 gobby works normally 05:38 ogra mvo, probably ... 05:38 ogra :) 05:39 ogra i'll look at it ... i want it for edubuntu so i'll probably have to do the fixes 05:39 ogra dholbach, Organisation looks good ... 05:40 ogra so far 05:40 lllmanulll So what's the decision about usability ? Create a new list/team ? I'd *love* to participate :) 05:41 dholbach we should start with the ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com list 05:41 dholbach and the team as it is 05:41 seb128 I'm for creating the tools now 05:41 seb128 I don't agree 05:41 lllmanulll All right, I vote for seb128 ! 05:41 lllmanulll :-p 05:41 dholbach :) 05:41 seb128 usuability is something that is useful for desktop guys 05:41 dholbach it's just that there is ~0 traffic on ubuntu-desktop@ 05:42 seb128 but need to be created because desktop guys often are not usuability expert 05:42 seb128 or don't care 05:42 seb128 or are not good at designing stuff 05:42 seb128 and usuability guys probably don't want to follow all the technical discussions 05:42 seb128 right, which is a different topic 05:42 ogra seb128, we'll need the people first ... 05:43 seb128 I tend to think than people come when the thing exist 05:43 ogra make a call for help to the mailing lists at first step 05:43 seb128 and don't come to force you to create it 05:43 dholbach look at the motu business - we STILL have no mailing list - do you think we'd get it for ubuntu-usability@ faster? :) 05:43 ogra get people in to show there is momentum ... === vuntz_ wonders why his name appears in Organisation ;-) 05:43 ogra than ask for a list 05:44 ogra vuntz_, because you talked about the topic nextto it ;) 05:44 seb128 vuntz_: what do you think? Creating a list first which will encourage enthousiastic people to subscribe, or other way? 05:44 seb128 trying to get people using -desktop to start 05:44 seb128 and moving if there is enough of them 05:44 vuntz_ I'd say it's better to have only one list at the beginning 05:44 seb128 k 05:44 seb128 so let's use -desktop for it 05:44 seb128 you guys win 05:45 vuntz_ and I'm a bit afraid that we ask too much to usability people if they are only 2 or 3 === dholbach hugs seb128, so he's not unhappy any more 05:45 vuntz_ (that's what's happening in GNOME for bugs...) 05:45 seb128 I'm not unhappy 05:45 dholbach *nod* 05:45 seb128 but I tend to think that usuability guys will not subscribe to a technical list === lllmanulll has to go but no matter when the usability list is created, I will be glad to contribute :) 05:46 ogra is the -desktop list a technical list ? 05:46 seb128 is supposed to be yep 05:46 ogra i havent seen any technical stuff there yet 05:46 seb128 the ubuntu-devel of the desktop team 05:46 dholbach lllmanulll: super, have a nice day :) 05:46 seb128 no, there is virtually no discussion atm 05:46 seb128 we use IRC most of the time :) 05:46 lllmanulll Cheers :) 05:47 vuntz_ what about asking the people who will be in the usability subteam ? 05:47 seb128 yeah 05:47 seb128 dholbach: make a point to send a mail about bringing usuability people to the desktop team 05:47 seb128 like 'call to voluntars" 05:47 dholbach YESSIR 05:48 ogra a real dholbach announce please :) they seem to attract people ;) 05:48 ogra (see the bugdays) 05:48 dholbach merci beaucoup 05:48 seb128 with a nut of vuntz_ with it === dholbach blushes and curtseys 05:48 seb128 so it's perfect :) 05:48 ogra yeah 05:49 dholbach TODO-ed it (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO) 05:49 seb128 cool 05:49 ogra yay 05:49 seb128 dholbach: should be keep the DONE points on a table to show what we have done? 05:49 seb128 or just drop them 05:50 dholbach seb128: that sounds good - i always just dropped them 05:50 dholbach but we will do that === dholbach changes 05:50 seb128 dholbach: I've changed 05:50 dholbach and because the lists will be sooo long in the end, we will print them as books and they'll bestsellers 05:50 dholbach ROCK 05:50 seb128 :) 05:51 vuntz_ <seb128> we use IRC most of the time :) 05:51 dholbach good point 05:51 vuntz_ seb128: btw, we might need to change this 05:51 ogra dholbach, make it a requirement for all ubuntu books to put them in as appendix A 05:51 vuntz_ (if we want more people to contribute) 05:51 seb128 yeah 05:51 ogra yup 05:51 dholbach yeah, we need to document better 05:52 vuntz_ having more discussion on -desktop is a good way to show that the team is alive and well-working 05:52 dholbach sometimes, even i have no clue about things to come on (because i'm not chatting to upstream or debian guys all day) 05:53 seb128 yeah, let's try to use the list when discussions could interest people === seb128 just mailed about gconf changes :) === dholbach saw it already :) === ogra too .... 05:53 seb128 I just sent it to -desktop === Nafallo to 05:53 vuntz_ seb128: you talked about things that could interest people ;-) === vuntz_ runs 05:54 seb128 vuntz_: define "people" :p 05:54 Nafallo ahh, that's what I was doing! 05:54 seb128 do you call yourself people? :) 05:54 Nafallo *subscribing* === vuntz_ waits for the mail to see if it's interesting 05:55 vuntz_ :-) 05:55 dholbach that went to u-d-a@ 05:55 dholbach :) 05:55 ogra and to u-d 05:55 ogra and to u-dt 05:56 ogra seb128, crossposter :p 05:56 seb128 announce and desktop only 05:56 seb128 and desktop just because we said we should show we do work :) 05:56 dholbach nautilus-actions? 05:56 dholbach wow :) 05:56 seb128 dholbach: read planet GNOME 05:56 dholbach i did 05:56 seb128 k 05:58 dholbach so what will you guys do next week in your desktop team activities? 05:59 vuntz_ hug everyone ? 06:00 dholbach sounds good :) 06:00 vuntz_ or is it a bad answer? 06:00 dholbach i just thought, this might bring up some ideas :) 06:00 ogra isnt hugging a good idea ? 06:01 dholbach it is :) 06:01 ogra i mean, dont we do our regular stuff on desktop packages anyway ? 06:01 vuntz_ dholbach: I think I'd like to help people getting involved 06:01 dholbach vuntz_: what were you thinking about? 06:01 vuntz_ I'm pretty useless since I don't have a lot of time 06:02 ogra i.e. i'm fighting with a xscreensaver split into 6 packages .... do you want me to state that here ? 06:02 vuntz_ dholbach: well, making an easy-to-find place with easy tasks 06:02 dholbach vuntz_: you're not useless, i'm quite happy to have you here 06:02 vuntz_ to be honest, this is something I'd like to do for GNOME too :-) 06:03 dholbach i very much appreciate this 06:03 vuntz_ :-) 06:03 seb128 that's why you guys should not vote for vuntz for the foundation :) 06:03 vuntz_ seb128: I hope they're not Foundation memebers ;-) === dholbach is Ubuntu Desktop Team member :) 06:04 seb128 ;) 06:04 vuntz_ okay, so, I'd like to see this: 06:05 vuntz_ everytime something interesting in the desktop is done, a note is added on a wiki page 06:05 vuntz_ then, we can make nice summaries so people can see what has been done 06:05 seb128 good idea 06:06 \sh moins 06:06 dholbach that's brilliant, yes 06:06 vuntz_ ideally, I'd like to see such a summary every week (or every two weeks) === dholbach hugs vuntz_ 06:06 vuntz_ the mail would also contain some easy love tasks 06:06 dholbach seb128: that will mean, we have to do more work, to make those summaries more exciting === seb128 blinks 06:07 seb128 I already work like 15 hours/day 06:07 seb128 :p 06:07 vuntz_ (this is something secret I'm planning to do for GNOME too, btw) === seb128 brb 06:07 ogra tsk... he sleeps 9h ? thats way to much :) 06:07 dholbach * uploaded gnome 2.15.2 06:07 dholbach * had a nice dog walk 06:07 dholbach * watched soccer game metz-nancy 06:07 dholbach * uploaded new gnumeric 06:07 dholbach * watched a nice movie in the cinema 06:07 dholbach * did a bug day 06:08 dholbach ^ that sounds good :) 06:08 vuntz_ metz-nancy 06:08 vuntz_ ahahahah 06:08 vuntz_ does someone plan to send a summary of the meeting? === dholbach can do that 06:09 vuntz_ great 06:09 seb128 vuntz_: thanks for voluntaring 06:09 dholbach have to do that for the a11y meeting anyways 06:09 seb128 s/vuntz_/dholbach 06:09 dholbach de rien 06:09 vuntz_ dholbach: I'm starting to be used to do this too ;-) 06:09 vuntz_ anyway, less work for me. I love this :-) 06:09 dholbach :) 06:10 dholbach i think for a first meeting this went quite well 06:10 dholbach less chaotic than i thought ;) 06:10 seb128 yeah 06:11 dholbach shall we have a meeting in one month of time? 06:11 Simira I think maybe trying to blank a cd with cd-record has trashed a lot of my applications and made nothing work... 06:11 dholbach (for those that don't enjoy christmas with their family) ;) 06:11 \sh uh.. 06:11 slomo dholbach: good idea, i'll be more active at that time ;) 06:12 Nafallo dholbach: *grin* 06:12 \sh 25. december is the birthday of my ex..and anglo-saxons highest xmas day.. 06:12 dholbach \sh: you might have missed the smiley 06:12 \sh that means in the morning i'm with my little one...in the afternoon ok 06:12 seb128 friday 16th? 06:12 dholbach sounds good 06:12 \sh dholbach: there is no smiley for me...normally i don't celebrate xmas when I'm in single status 06:12 dholbach should we have different times? 06:13 dholbach to accomodate the australian/american/asian folks? 06:13 seb128 hum 06:13 dholbach or are we all ok with 16 UTC? 06:13 seb128 9utc? 06:14 dholbach 16th, 16 UTC sounds good, doesnt it? :) 06:14 seb128 fine with me :) 06:14 dholbach ok, i'll put that in the meeting minutes as well 06:14 dholbach thank you very much everybody... i really appreciated your ideas and input 06:15 dholbach to be honest... in the first few silent minutes, i thought we were doomed :) 06:15 dholbach but now i'm quite confident, we'll get a super-duper desktop team rolling 06:15 seb128 :) 06:16 vuntz_ have to go 06:16 vuntz_ see you later 06:16 seb128 was a nice meeting 06:16 seb128 thanks dholbach 06:16 seb128 thanks everybody 06:16 ogra thanks daniel 06:16 dholbach i enjoyed it 06:17 dholbach everybody dismissed :) 06:17 Nafallo :-)
MeetingLogs/Desktop_2005-11-25 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:34:34 by localhost)