20070403
Summary
- There was a general agreement that there is a need for a formalized CoC dispute resolution process. The proposal by Matthew Garrett is a good first step towards formalizing it and he will flesh it out some more before proposing it to the CC via mail.
The Austrian and Nicaraguan LoCoTeams are welcomed as official LoCoTeam
Members
Log
tz UTC+1
01:16 Seveas mako! :) 01:16 jsgotangco cheers mako 01:16 mako apologies for being late, i left my phone vibrate and missed my alarm 01:16 mako elmo: thanks for the call 01:16 Seveas elmo, cjwatson: prod, we can start 01:16 SWAT mako, you're now, that's what counts :) 01:16 Seveas mjg59, ping, you're first on the agenda 01:16 mjg59 Hi 01:16 mjg59 Ok. Want me to do a brief introduction? 01:18 Seveas I'm wondering why you wanted to write this up *now*, has there been a particular incident? 01:18 biberao back 01:18 mjg59 Seveas: There has, but I don't think the specifics of a particular incident are especially relevant right now 01:18 Seveas ok 01:18 mjg59 In the absence of good guidelines, it's harder to judge people's behaviour 01:19 mjg59 Effectively, the problem that I think needs dealing with is that it's entirely unclear what should happen if somebody believes that the CoC has been violated 01:20 mako mjg59: so i've appreciated your recent writing on coc related issues 01:21 mjg59 So if a complaint is made, there's the potential for argument over whether or not it was a violation to take place in the same forum as the original complaint 01:21 mako and i think that a policy for what should happen would be a good idea 01:21 mjg59 Which can then give the impression that the complaint isn't taken seriously, and could exacerbate any original offence 01:21 cjwatson various people made comments on your wiki page; I liked the note explicitly saying that discussions of CoC violations shouldn't happen in the same forum 01:22 Seveas should these happen in public at all? 01:22 cjwatson they do tend to escalate rather 01:22 mako Seveas: ideally, i think so 01:22 cjwatson there needs to be opportunity for right-of-reply and feedback 01:23 cjwatson but blogwars or whatever don't really help 01:23 mjg59 From my point of view, the risk of making the original complaint via some back-channel is that there's no awareness amongst other members of the list/forum/channel/whatever that there's an issue until it's already been dealt with 01:23 mako mjg59: so my major thought, which isn't really a reply on its own, was that that i was curious about how the forums folks handle this 01:23 mako mjg59: and i have a rough idea of how it happens 01:24 cjwatson mjg59: complaint via back-channel plus note on list saying that it's been escalated 01:24 mako because they have this problem probably several times a ewek 01:24 MikeB- we have an infraction system 01:24 jsgotangco part of the forum engine of sorts? 01:25 dinda but mailing list and Loco Teams and IRC don't have any back channels as of yet 01:25 MikeB- if a violation of the CoC or forums CoC happen we issue an infraction and send a PM 01:25 mc44 mako, as does irc 01:25 mjg59 I certainly agree that any further conversation of the issue shouldn't take place in the same forum, but I'm less sold on the idea that the initial complaint shouldn't be 01:25 mako mjg59: i think i agree 01:26 Seveas (mc44, the irc complaint/escalation system is not quite finalized/written down yet, pending discussions at UDS Seville) 01:26 MikeB- we give the person a chance to explain. 01:26 mjg59 I think it ought to be possible for someone to express unhappiness and the original poster to apologise without actually invoking any sort of formal procedure 01:26 mako mjg59: i think that public discussion about the cc and sugestoins that certain behavior might be unacceptable help communicate social norms to the larger community 01:27 mako coc even 01:27 mjg59 Right, that was my point of view 01:27 cjwatson mjg59: mm 01:28 cjwatson also reducing the need for escalation is a good thing 01:30 MikeB- an infraction system of sorts could be added to launchpad, everyone should be allowed one bad judgement call, it is the repeat offenders yo need to worry about. someway to track them would help 01:30 cjwatson I don't think we can assume that people on the mailing lists or IRC have launchpad accounts 01:30 cjwatson or even should assume 01:30 Seveas we should not 01:31 cjwatson I think we probably have enough social memory for this kind of thing though - there's less volume here than on the forums 01:31 MikeB- cjwatson: good point 01:32 mjg59 My aim with the draft I wrote was to produce a process that's fairly light-weight but achieves three goals: (1) it's possible to short-circuit the entire thing by allowing the original poster to apologise, (2) ensuring that further discussion of the issue doesn't occur where it's likely to cause further offence and (3) ensures that contentious issues can still be handled by an uninvolved set of people (ie, the CC) 01:32 cjwatson I agree that people should be allowed mistake(s) before being banned, though not before being reprimanded 01:33 cjwatson mjg59: I think folding in the comments on that draft to make things generally more explicit would be good, but I like the general idea 01:34 mjg59 Ok. There seems to be general approval for something like this - what's the best way to go from here? 01:34 mako so.. my only concern is with calling it enforcement 01:34 Daviey I whole heatedly disagree with the principle of people being reprimanded, that IMHO is not the intention of either the CoC or Ubuntu itself. It's a _want_ to adhere - not forced to 01:35 cjwatson mako: mjg59's draft doesn't 01:35 mako because we're going to have to make the same judgement call to "enforce" this as we will to "enforce" the cc 01:35 mako but as a guideline, i think it' sgood 01:35 mako cjwatson: yes, that' sgood 01:36 cjwatson Daviey: sadly, unless there's some way to tell people they were wrong, the CoC will deteriorate into meaninglessness 01:36 mjg59 Daviey: If people don't want to adhere to the CoC, then they're not welcome in the Ubuntu community 01:36 cjwatson Daviey: and people who feel aggrieved by others not adhering to it want to know that their concerns are valid 01:36 mako Daviey: the *only* thing we require of all members or ubunteros is that they aggree to to the CoC 01:37 Daviey mjg59, i don't know where that conclusion has been made. The CoC is something for people to thing hard about, and sign if the wish. (I have). 01:37 cjwatson Daviey: it was right at the foundation of Ubuntu 01:37 mako Daviey: it was one of the first two or three documents we wrote for the website 01:37 mjg59 Daviey: The aim of the CoC was to ensure that there was a common base-line of accepted behaviour for the entire community 01:38 cjwatson the CoC is not some kind of optional extension 01:38 dinda My comments were added b/c some folks who originate the issue, i.e. invoke the COC, then walk away but then the issue escalates in their absence, so there needs to be responsibility on both sides 01:38 cjwatson "you can behave nicely ... if you want" 01:38 SWAT the coc is like a contract only less legal (there is a reason why you must sign it with your own private gpg key). Why shouldn't someone be held responsible for their actions? You can ofcourse first PM the person in question to tell them to cool off and if that doesn't works, complain. 01:38 Daviey I am a big pro of the principle of the CoC - it's something that people make a commitment that they want to follow. It is not rules. Unless i have grossly misunderstood 01:39 mc44 Daviey, even if you havent signed it, if you want to participate in ubuntu community forums such as mailing lists, you are expected to abide by it 01:39 mako Daviey: i suppose you don't have to agree to it, but if you act in a way that users, and leadership through consulation, feels runs rounter to the CoC, you'll be asked to leave 01:39 mako Daviey: it's not meant to be a stick, if that's what you mean.. and they're inentionally a little vague 01:39 Daviey (not that it matters, but i have signed it) 01:39 LoudMouthMan But was its purpose to enable people to set guidelines of expectations on others or themselves ? Im worried that enabling it to be used to judge others is less Ubuntu then enabling it to judge yourself. 01:39 mako Daviey: but they are guidelines and a set of common ground 01:39 cjwatson LoudMouthMan: it's so that people understand the common community expectations 01:40 mako mjg59: so i like your little enumerated list here 01:40 cjwatson they were written to ensure that expectations of general decent behaviour were set right from the start 01:40 LoudMouthMan yes I understood that , i took days to consider what it meant before i signed it i also blogged about it. 01:40 mako mjg59: i think it was pretty concise. and i think we should add this to a new version of the CoC 01:41 LoudMouthMan are we discussing the alternative process list ? 01:41 cjwatson LoudMouthMan: it's not meant for people to wave at each other all the time, no, but when people genuinely aren't being decent to each other then it's appropriate to do something about it 01:41 mako mgj59: after a broader consulatation with the community i guess.. we need to be careful changing something that most community members have already agreed to 01:42 cjwatson mako: I would just put it somewhere on /community on the web site and have an informative reference in the CoC 01:42 cjwatson I don't think it needs to be in the normative document 01:42 LoudMouthMan I think the process amendment to me fits better into guideliness for leasership and responsibility. 01:42 cjwatson LoudMouthMan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeOfConductDisputeResolution - it's not about leadership 01:42 LoudMouthMan and we do need a greivance procedure somewhere. 01:42 cjwatson this is such a proposed grievance procedure 01:43 LoudMouthMan I know i read it . and Iunderstand it . but people goto authority and as such leadership . they rarely resolve it between themselves. 01:43 mako cjwatson: ok, i don't feel too strongly either way 01:43 mjg59 LoudMouthMan: As I said, I don't like a couple of aspects of the alternate procedure suggestion - firstly that it provides no mechanism for an informal procedure, and secondly the fact that it immediately places both parties on moderation 01:44 cjwatson LoudMouthMan: I'd much rather people were encouraged to at least try to resolve things between themselves at first. Going to authority all the time gets dysfunctional 01:44 mjg59 Sorry, that should have been "informal resolution" not "informal procedure" 01:44 LoudMouthMan agreed people should resolve things together. 01:45 mako who wrote the alternative procedure? 01:45 cjwatson Mark Harrison 01:45 LoudMouthMan Mark Harrison . 01:45 mako yes, i see that 01:45 mako is mark here? 01:45 LoudMouthMan no , not that i can see. 01:46 mjg59 The CoC isn't a stick to beat people with, but at the same time failing to ensure that people view it as the standard for acceptable behaviour gives the impression that our community is less welcoming === mako nods 01:47 mako yes, by bypassing information method sof resolution, it gives up the mechanism by which 90% of prevoius coc "issues" have been resolved 01:47 mjg59 And it needs to be easy for people to express that they feel a specific action is against the CoC without feeling that by doing so they're tying themselves into a long and drawn out formal procedure 01:47 mako i think with great effect in the larger community 01:48 cjwatson mako: s/information/informal/? 01:49 mjg59 I'll admit that a malicious person could use something like the suggested process to stifle discussion, but I'd also be surprised if anyone tried to 01:49 war_ I am sorry to interfere, but why don't you just adopt a standard legal mediation procedure. 01:49 war_ The two parties assign a referee of their choice and these referees elect a third person to complete the judgement team. The team listens to both sides and takes a final judgement. Both quarreling parties accept the findings. 01:49 mako cjwatson: yes === LoudMouthMan wouldnt be the more we set fences the more we can find for people to sit on them. 01:49 mako mjg59: someone probably will try to at some point 01:50 mjg59 mako: Hm. Perhaps I have too much faith in people. 01:50 mako mjg59: well, we're a big community :) 01:50 mako but it won't happen often and that doesn't mean we don't come out on top with the policy anyway 01:51 mjg59 Abuse of the CoC weakens it, so it should be seen as equally unacceptable within the community 01:52 cjwatson war_: the main difference I see there is that it allows things to be delegated below the community council, which is probably a good thing. I'm not sure that referee nomination would be practical in our environment though 01:52 mako mjg59: yes, that's right 01:52 cjwatson maybe amend mjg59's draft to say "the community council or another appropriate body"? 01:52 cjwatson mjg59: ^-- 01:53 mjg59 So how about I tidy up the proposal a bit, incorporate the suggestions that have been made and then run it past the CC mailing list? 01:53 Seveas sounds like a plan 01:53 cjwatson yep 01:53 mjg59 Ok. I'll do that, then. 01:53 mjg59 Thanks! 01:53 mako mjg59: i'll work on it a little bit 01:55 Seveas ok, so we can move on in the agenda? 01:55 mjg59 Yes, I think I'm done 01:55 Seveas ok, war_ you're up (AustrianTeam) 01:55 Seveas please introduce the team to us :) 01:56 war_ cjwatson: This procedure works well in a number of legal systems all over the world. It works crossing boundaries, language barriers and even technological barriers (and even over time). 01:56 war_ I followed the discussion and I see all the arguments I have heard otherwise. 01:56 war_ All the parties have to agree apon is a referee of their choice. The rest is settled by their trusted representatives. 01:56 cjwatson war_: perhaps you could comment on the wiki page above, then 01:57 MikeB- war_: a mediator could be required in some cases, but we should let the community work out the problem and hopefully be adults:) 01:58 war_ cjwatson: I will put my thoughts on the wiki === mako nods 01:58 war_ Seveas: Thanks for the opportunity to represent Austria Team 01:58 war_ I'm not that fast as most of yo 01:59 war_ Marion and myself represent the Austria Ubuntu Community 01:59 war_ Initially founded by Marion the team has formed in mid 2006 02:00 war_ I joined later 02:00 war_ Austria is geographically centered around Vienna (capital) 02:00 war_ There are 1/4 of the population in this area 02:01 war_ We have a small but active community here 02:01 war_ We operate a web portal, meet every other week and maintain strong communication in our web forum 02:02 war_ There are strong connections to official agencies interested in Open Source 02:03 war_ As we have reached a critical mass in Vienna, we decided to apply for official recognition as a LoCo Team 02:03 AndrewB war_: the fora certinally looks active. 02:03 war_ thanks 02:03 jsgotangco what's the url of the web portal? 02:03 AndrewB http://www.ubuntu-austria.at/ 02:03 war_ we have 275 registered members 02:04 war_ http://www.ubuntu-austria.at 02:04 mako wow, that looks great 02:05 war_ One thing I forgot, we offer regular training sessions to kick start people into using Ubuntu 02:05 mako what do those look like? 02:05 war_ (well, Marion does, shes the one to take credit) 02:06 war_ mako: The seminars? We have a photo session on the board 02:06 war_ 5 - 10 people, bring their computers or work on presentation machines 02:06 jsgotangco the portal is awesome 02:06 war_ set up ubuntu, start some apps, see how easy it is 02:06 war_ hoefully switch 02:06 iGama war_, nice 02:07 war_ Again: Credit to Marion, she is the one 02:07 war_ I just type (and slowly as I see) 02:07 mako war_: how long have you been involved? 02:08 war_ mako: Involved into what? 02:08 war_ IT: 35 years 02:08 AndrewB http://www.ubuntu-austria.at/album_pic.php?pic_id=31 Doesn't look like things are going too well ;) 02:08 war_ Windows: > 10 02:08 war_ Ubuntu: 6 months 02:08 marion hello, I am also here, but write very slowly in english 02:08 war_ Thats excitement: ;-) 02:09 war_ After a c:> format c: 02:09 AndrewB heh 02:09 iGama Susana, * 02:10 mako war_: i meant ubuntu 02:10 marion I get very animated when i explain people about ubuntu :) 02:10 mako marion: me too :) 02:11 war_ mako: I had a bit of Unix knowhow previously but basically I am an MS guy 02:11 war_ I tried Ubuntu in summer 2006. Got interested 02:11 war_ led me to switch end of 2006 02:11 jsgotangco ubuntu and a pack of smokes that's all you need to be productive indeed 02:11 war_ I dont smoke 02:11 war_ I dont drink 02:12 marion i do! 02:12 iGama LoL === jsgotangco saw the pack on the pic 02:12 mako well i think the work here is great 02:13 mako i'm happy welcome your team to the fold 02:13 mako please keep up the great work 02:13 war_ Thanks and thanks for the warm welcome 02:13 AndrewB :) 02:13 marion thanks for the praise, we#ll definitely keep up the good work and are very excited! 02:13 elmo +1 from me too 02:13 Seveas cjwatson, ? 02:14 mako is someone from ni here? 02:14 leogg mako: over here 02:14 peperoni yes we are! 02:14 mako we're running late, please go ahead 02:14 Angeltronix me too! 02:14 leogg Greetings, and thank you all for allowing us to take a few minutes of your time today. My name is Leandro Gmez and I want to introduce you to the Nicaraguan LoCo Team (aka Ubuntu-ni). Our wiki entry is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam (in Spanish) and our application can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam/ApprovalApplication 02:14 mako i'll need to leave in 45m to get to another meeting 02:14 leogg The Nicaraguan LoCo Team is commited to promote the use of free and open source software in Nicaragua. Our membership at last count were 42 members, althought not everybody are suscribed to Launchpad or listed in the main wiki. Ubuntu-ni is an active member of the REDSLCAN, a local network of Nicaraguan LUGs and FLOSS advocates, and we attend to meetings and collaborate with the different LUGs on a regular basis. 02:14 Seveas then let's hurry :) 02:15 cjwatson Seveas: (no problem from me) 02:15 leogg What we do in Ubuntu-ni: 1) Advocacy: Ubuntu related seminars across the country, 2) Documentation: translations and compilation of HOWTOs, guides and tutorials in Spanish, 3) Support: we provide community support in our mailing list, IRC channel and on several Nicaraguan tech-boards on the web. 4) Local production and distribution of Ubuntu CDs 02:15 mako leogg: you produce/distribute cds locally? 02:15 leogg 5) Installfests, the Nicaraguan LoCo Team is the official organizer of the Latin American InstallFest (FLISOL) in Nicaragua. We are going to have +12 conferences and distribute 300 Ubuntu CDs, the whole event is going to be streamed live on the Internet and covered by local media (TV, radio and newspapers). This particular event has raised a huge amount of interest among the population and one of the major national newspapers has offered 02:15 leogg mako: yes 02:16 leogg 6) Localization, we are working hard on a local distribution of Ubuntu, one of the highlights for future releases is the translation of Ubuntu to Miskito, a language spoken by ~200K people in northeastern Nicaragua and southern Honduras. With this, Ubuntu will become the first OS on that language. 02:16 leogg 7) We are organizing local user groups in the major universities and in several cities across the country. The idea of the local groups is being close to the end user and make a bigger impact on a local level. One of our local groups in the University of Managua has been officialy recognised by the authorities of the university and valuable resources, such as full access to a computer lab and unrestricted Internet access on campus has bee 02:17 leogg We also have our Classroom Project that is aimed towards capacity building within our organisation. Our goal is to increase the level of participation and contributions of our members to the community. Another cool project we are going to start next month is the School Mentor Program, where every member of Ubuntu-ni is going to "adopt" an elementary schoool in order to teach Linux there for free. 02:17 Seveas yay for localization :) 02:17 leogg Future plans include collaboration and mentoring other teams in the area in order to make Central America an Ubuntu stronghold. 02:17 leogg And with this I conclude our presentation. If you have any questions I'll be glad to answer them. Thank you. 02:17 elkbuntu wow.. you guys sound busy === Seveas is impressed with the activity 02:18 Seveas good job folks! 02:18 leogg elkbuntu: yes, wish the day had more than 24 hours 02:18 Seveas https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=NicaraguaTerritorioUbuntu-small.png is nice 02:18 leogg Seveas: thanks 02:18 iGama nice work leogg 02:19 leogg iGama: thank you, I have a great team 02:19 iGama thats important :) 02:19 leogg iGama: yes, our members are very active and passionate about this 02:20 Angeltronix that's right 02:21 elmo leogg: your 7th point was cut off at 'on campus has bee' 02:21 mako yes, the map is cute 02:21 leogg elmo: One of our local groups in the University of Managua has been officialy recognised by the authorities of the university and valuable resources, such as full access to a computer lab and unrestricted Internet access on campus has been granted for the team. 02:21 leogg mako: thank you 02:22 leogg Angeltronix here is the coordinator of the University of Managua 02:22 elmo leogg: cool, thanks - all looks very impressive 02:22 mako leogg: so you send out hte cds personally? 02:22 leogg he has done a great job over there 02:22 Angeltronix yeah, I'm coordinating the group of The University of Managua 02:23 leogg mako: yes, we ask everybodu who is interested to donate a blank cd to keep the ball rolling ;) 02:23 mako the wiki pages looks completely awesome, by the way :) 02:23 peperoni and i'm from de National University of engineering 02:23 leogg mako: thank you, the whole collaborated on the wiki 02:23 AndrewB The wikipage is amazing. 02:23 leogg AndrewB: thanks 02:24 Angeltronix well, the design was made by leogg... 02:24 AndrewB The header graphic accross the top is a very nice addition. Maybe other LoCo groups should follow :D 02:24 Angeltronix he made a great work! 02:24 leogg AndrewB: it's a volcano located on an island here, we're are known to be the land of "lakes and volcanoes" 02:25 AndrewB leogg: sounds slightly dangerous ;) 02:25 leogg AndrewB: yes, it is indeed... but one gets used to it 02:25 mako leogg: how many cds have you sent? 02:26 leogg mako: this year slightly over 100 02:26 mako leogg: i'm just trying to get a sense of whether this is something you might want to help document for other teams to replicate 02:26 mako that's cool 02:26 leogg on flisol we hope to distribute about 300 02:26 leogg mako: will be happy to do 02:26 mako are you at all involved with the larger loco community? 02:26 mako you seem to be doing a few things that most other locos are not, it seemed like a litle documentation and work might be able to spread the ieas to others 02:27 leogg mako: we have been communicating with other locos, yes 02:27 mako great :) 02:27 mako well i encourage you to do more of that, and to keep up the work 02:27 leogg mako: of course, i'll be glad to help out 02:27 mako +1 from me! welcome 02:27 leogg mako: thank you 02:28 Angeltronix thanks mako 02:28 peperoni thanks! 02:29 Seveas good 02:29 Seveas let's move on to member candidates then 02:29 Seveas AndrewB, you're first 02:29 AndrewB Hey guys! 02:29 AndrewB <paste> 02:30 AndrewB I am Andrew Alexander Barber, a Scottish GNU/Linux user for many years. I started contributing to the Ubuntu community after I found the very easy Rosetta translation 'tool', which was real useful as it is accessible from many locations and I tend to travel a lot. I started looking around the Ubuntu wiki and at launchpad to find all the different things that is being done within the community. I started making some documenta 02:30 AndrewB Really I am echo'ing my wiki, which you guys can check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewBarber 02:30 AndrewB </paste> 02:30 AndrewB ;) 02:30 Seveas ScotsBuntu.... 02:30 mako AndrewB: what languages were you translating into? 02:30 Seveas kinda scary ;) 02:30 AndrewB mako: currently only Scots as said on my wiki I am learning Gealic and hope to help out soon. 02:31 AndrewB Seveas: could be if you go under them kilts. 02:31 mako AndrewB: cool! 02:31 mako AndrewB: how many others are participatingin the scots translation? 02:32 AndrewB 1 other. 02:32 AndrewB So we are very slow 02:32 AndrewB I hope to get a few more mates to start. 02:32 AndrewB I have one currently who I am teaching all the basics.. he would possibly help he says 02:33 AndrewB He was going to come and thumbs up me but he is busy :( 02:34 mako AndrewB: well, it seems that you are making good progress for a small team :) 02:34 AndrewB mako: still alot of work sadly :( 02:35 AndrewB Gealic may get a big influx and I hope to contact local council. It is [re] now the official language of Scotland, the goverment are putting ALOT of money into it. :D 02:36 AndrewB Thanks schwuk 02:36 mako wow, that's exciting === cjwatson has to go and do other things now, sorry - hope elmo and mako can get by without 02:37 mako i think that free software has a huge opportunity to make inroads in situations like this 02:37 mako cjwatson: thanks for being here 02:37 jsgotangco gaelic becoming official intersting... 02:37 AndrewB Some schools are taking it all on, maybe edubuntu could step in here. 02:37 iGama jsgotangco, yep 02:37 iGama din't know about that 02:38 iGama AndrewB, we in the Portuguese LoCo are think about that 02:38 iGama in small schools 02:38 Seveas mako, shall we do "elmo and mako ack, sabdfl is sent the logs for final ack"? 02:38 AndrewB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic_language 02:38 jsgotangco it would be intersting to see edubuntu spinoffs with specific languages 02:38 AndrewB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B2rd_na_G%C3%A0idhlig 02:38 AndrewB heh 02:39 AndrewB [further info] 02:39 mako Seveas: yes, lets do that 02:40 Seveas ok, I'll take care of summarizing & log sending 02:40 mako AndrewB: i was just looking at that article 02:40 mako Seveas: thanks! 02:40 jsgotangco does it also include irish gaelic? 02:40 AndrewB mako: this is all in the future of what I hope to acheive 02:40 iGama Feasgar math :D 02:40 mako AndrewB: was the first loco team meeting yesterday? 02:42 AndrewB mako: well.. it did not go too well, it was not well promoted and has not really been worth it. People didn't feel the need to travel for only a 'social meet' or that is what I assume. I am talking with people such as chaddy about another one, with a proper purpose. I hope to have one soon. I also want to let smaller towns up north join in. Places with not so much coverage such as Aberdeen 02:42 AndrewB I think people are willing to attend should there be a proper talk. 02:43 AndrewB The return I got from the original was low anyway. I went to where it was going to be held incase anybody did turn up. Alas it was quiet on the ubuntu members front 02:44 Seveas too bad 02:44 mako ah, too bad 02:44 AndrewB I noticed the groups above efforts and hope to use their efforts here.. they seem to be doing well with them. [Install days, etc] 02:44 mako AndrewB: well i appreciate your efforts in all of these areas 02:44 Seveas we had the same in NL: social-only meet: a few people, meet with discussions: many more 02:45 mako and am happy with a +1 for membreship from me 02:45 Seveas elmo, ? 02:45 mako AndrewB: and i look forward to meeting you at debconf this summer 02:45 AndrewB thanks to mako 02:45 AndrewB Oh you are attending? :D 02:45 elmo +1 02:45 mako of course! 02:45 AndrewB and elmo thanks. 02:45 Seveas ok, AndrewB. Almost there, I'll send the log to sabdfl after the meeting. 02:45 AndrewB mako: great I will be the one stressing over my exams. 02:45 AndrewB Seveas: that is great. 02:45 Seveas iGama, you're up 02:45 iGama Seveas, thanks 02:46 iGama My name is Marco Da Silva, I've been using Gnu/Linux for about 4 years, and in Ubuntu for 3. 02:46 iGama Part of the Portuguese LoCo Team, where i helping the translations and help in the organition. 02:46 iGama Created a portuguese Wiki for the community. 02:46 Seveas xerxas-, you back yet? 02:46 iGama Born in South Africa, Living in Portugal 02:47 iGama Majorly, I give support to new users 02:47 iGama teaching them the system 02:47 Seveas any folks from .pt here to cheer for iGama ? 02:47 iGama yep 02:47 Susana Hi, I'm here to cheer for iGama, he's a very active and enthusiastic member of the ubuntu-pt team 02:47 iGama i hope 02:47 iGama Constantino, Kmos Susana 02:47 iGama :D 02:48 iGama have 3 testimonials in the wiki page 02:48 Susana he has put a great effort into translations and support 02:48 iGama the www.guiaubuntupt.org has about 1000 unique daily visits, 02:48 Susana he has created a very usefull wiki with tutorials 02:48 iGama :) 02:49 Susana and he does an amazing job at marketing 02:49 Susana in Portugal 02:50 iGama thanks Susana :) 02:50 Seveas did you create guiaubuntupt.org all by yourself? 02:50 iGama yep started alone 02:50 jsgotangco that's impressive 02:51 iGama now i have some help occasionaly 02:51 iGama :) 02:51 Belutz is the meeting already started? 02:51 Seveas Belutz, about 2 hours ago.... 02:51 AndrewB iGama: that looks a very nice site 02:51 Belutz wew 02:51 iGama AndrewB, thanks 02:51 iGama :) 02:52 iGama Constantino, looks like is working 02:52 iGama in university i try to help freshmen 02:53 iGama most of them are new to linux 02:54 licio iGama usually help the users in the #ubuntu-pt channel :) 02:54 AndrewB That seems to be the best place to get people into GNU/Linux 02:54 SWAT they are the high potentials 02:54 iGama and like i said in the wiki, im talking with ANSOL ( portuguese Free Software association ) to organize a SL conference 02:54 iGama AndrewB, SWAT yep 02:55 iGama they like it 02:55 Constantino he also helps people in the ptnet irc network 02:55 iGama :) 02:56 Constantino and he always looking for new ways to create documentation that may help people 02:56 Constantino for example the Portuguese National Association for Free Software (ANSOL) 02:56 Constantino as already talked with him 02:57 Seveas Looks very good 02:57 Constantino for a project to create screencasts 02:57 licio I would recommend iGama being approved for membership for his strong advocating and helping. 02:57 mako yes, this all looks great 02:57 Constantino he's algo helping organizing a large event 02:58 Constantino about free software 02:58 Seveas events are good 02:58 Seveas spread awareness! 02:58 mako +1 from me 02:58 elmo +1 02:58 Seveas great 02:58 mako this all looks fantastic 02:58 iGama :D 02:58 Seveas YokoZar, you're up! 02:58 iGama thanks all :) 02:58 Constantino this will take place in a large university 02:58 YokoZar Hey there, I'm Scott Ritchie (from eg http://www.winehq.org/site/download). For a while I've been making the Wine packages for Ubuntu (which have later been integrated into universe by \sh), however I never actually completed the membership process. I'd like to support my packages more, and recent changes to the email process is going to require an @ubuntu.com address for the package maintainer field, so I figure now's a good t 02:59 mako YokoZar: how long have you been doing the packages? 02:59 Seveas YokoZar, that was trimmed at "now's a good" 02:59 iGama Constantino, thanks man :) 02:59 YokoZar so I figure now's a good time to actually finish the membership process. 02:59 YokoZar mako: since before Breezy 03:00 YokoZar I don't remember if my packages were in Hoary or not 03:00 Seveas wine is one of those gooed upstreams who want to integrate properly 03:00 Seveas I like such upstreams 03:01 war_ Have to leave, good luck 03:01 Seveas YokoZar, are you planning to become MOTU as well? 03:02 YokoZar Seveas: Probably. I just graduated college, and I have a lot more time now. As a MOTU, my chief focus would probably just be the Wine package though 03:02 jsgotangco its a pretty good focus though 03:02 Kmos +1 for iGama 03:02 Kmos :) 03:02 jsgotangco lots of impact happening on that front for sure 03:02 lotusleaf I just wanted to add that I've been using Scott's wine builds in Ubuntu for a long time now and I've always found them to be quality and I feel that his help as an Ubuntu member would be useful to the extreme. 03:03 YokoZar Yeah, things have gotten really exciting with Wine recently 03:03 iGama Kmos, lol my turn has ended already :) 03:03 Seveas YokoZar, congrats on the graduation! 03:03 Kmos iGama: but the log not :) 03:03 YokoZar Thank you lotusleaf 03:03 xerxas iGama, congratulation :) 03:04 lotusleaf YokoZar, and thank you for your wine builds, I never knew you were on freenode. :) 03:04 iGama yep YokoZar the wine packages work great :) 03:04 mako YokoZar: i think i'm going to take the "it's about time" position on this on e:) 03:04 mako +1 from me for solid and very long term contributions in terms of wine 03:04 SWAT YokoZar, great work and keep it up :) 03:04 elmo yeah, +1 03:04 Seveas awesome 03:04 Seveas xerxas, you're up 03:05 Seveas (xerxas was first on the list but arrived late) 03:05 YokoZar Thank you everyone. Now I'm gonna go to bed since it's 6am here ;) 03:05 Seveas YokoZar, g'night 03:05 iGama YokoZar, sweet dreams ;) 03:05 Seveas xerxas, please introduce yourself to us 03:05 mako YokoZar: thanks for showing up 03:06 xerxas Hi all 03:06 xerxas I'm samuel maftoul , I'm contributing since probably 1 year and a half to ubuntu 03:06 xerxas I'm often hanging on IRC and know some of the developpers. 03:06 xerxas I'm mostly doing bug triaging and packaging. 03:07 xerxas I have made my first package for edgy, and have a new package in feisty. 03:07 xerxas I felt it was a good time to appy for memebership as I'm spending a lot of time with ubuntu in my life even If I don't have much time 03:07 Seveas xerxas, did you find dholbach / seb128 ? 03:08 seb128 I'm around 03:08 xerxas Seveas, I dhollbach didn't replied yet 03:08 xerxas I also had some contact with slomo as I have packaged some mono stuff 03:09 Seveas seb128, xerxas told me you could vouch for him. Please do so if that's true :) 03:09 seb128 xerxas is hanging on IRC quite often, he does some bug triage and and work with the telepathy team 03:10 xerxas Seveas, it's true then :) 03:11 seb128 Seveas: I would not say he does huge amonth of work though 03:11 mako seb128: has it been significant and sustained enough that you think he's ready for membership? 03:11 seb128 but small contribution are welcome as well ;) 03:11 mako there's no shame is holding off for a meeting or two 03:11 seb128 mako: I don't have really a good idea on what you guys expect for membership === mako has looked through launchpad a bit 03:12 Seveas seb128, few months of good contributions 03:12 mako xerxas: your wiki page is pretty thin 03:12 seb128 "good contribution" 03:12 mako we say "significant and sustained" 03:12 Seveas seb128, that's always a judgement call :) 03:12 xerxas mako, I can updated it then 03:12 seb128 well, maybe not then 03:12 seb128 he's hanging on IRC 03:12 Seveas too bad launchpad karma history doesn't go that far back 03:12 seb128 often points problem he's looking at 03:12 xerxas I think dholbach is more aware of my work 03:12 Seveas Edited Bug Title 2007-03-04 21:43:06 CET 2007-03-04 03:12 Seveas Bug Rejected 2007-01-09 01:03:14 CET 2007-01-09 03:12 seb128 he didn't do much bug triage nor actual fixing though 03:13 mako i'd say at two least two months and in the top 25% of people one would call "contributors" 03:13 seb128 dholbach might be better placed to speak about telephathy team work 03:13 mako xerxas: in the interest of time (i'm already 15 minutes over and you'l lhave to wait for an ack from someone not here anyway) why don't you get written testimonials and work on your wiki page and we'll revisit this at a future meeting 03:13 xerxas I'm generally looking at new bugs comming and try to add some info to them 03:13 seb128 Seveas, xerxas: I would not say he's doing signifiant work, no 03:13 mako xerxas: that's great :) 03:13 seb128 ups 03:13 mako xerxas: you should keep it up :) 03:14 seb128 Seveas, mako: ^ 03:14 xerxas mako, :) 03:14 xerxas ok , let's see that for another review 03:14 Seveas mako, we have one member candidate left now (who's a really good one), do you have time for him? 03:14 iGama Brb 03:14 xerxas last 2 months I have not been participating a lot 03:14 Seveas xerxas, if you need help flshing out your wikipage, feel free to poke me 03:14 xerxas I was moving and didn't have internet connexion at home 03:15 Seveas xerxas, that explains :) Let's get your contributions properly documented for next time 03:15 xerxas I have moved since yesterday 03:15 xerxas now I'll have more free time 03:15 xerxas (that's why I couldn't attend last community council meeting) 03:16 mako Seveas: yeah, lets go :) 03:16 Seveas ok 03:16 Seveas SWAT, you're up 03:16 SWAT Name: Sebastian Schauenburg - Description: M/23/Netherlands - Occupation: College student (IT) - Ubuntu contributions: P.R./Advocacy (sadly: hard to objectively quantify), supporting and setting up a couple of meetings, Education (a course about Linux -> very Ubuntu oriented), IRC support (#Ubuntu-NL), Forum support (forum.ubuntu-nl.org) - Plans: keep supporting Ubuntu and getting even more involved (including getting other people to use 03:17 Seveas and let me be the first one to say \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ for SWAT 03:17 iGama Seveas, LOL 03:17 iGama SWAT, ;) 03:17 xerxas :) 03:17 SWAT Seveas, thanks for the cheer 03:17 iGama Have to go work, see you later 03:17 Seveas he's one of the driving forces behind the dutch locoteam 03:17 mako SWAT: where in nl? 03:18 SWAT mako, Woensdrecht (the south part, about 15 minutes from Belgium) 03:18 SWAT south-west actually 03:18 Seveas especially https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NlWinterMeeting2007 would not have been possible without him 03:18 gnomefreak nl == neitherlands? 03:18 AndrewB Yeah 03:18 Seveas gnomefreak, almost. Lose the i :p 03:19 gnomefreak ah ty ;) 03:20 SWAT I don't know if silence is good, so if you have a question, just ask 03:20 elmo "I can sell or recommend bad products, [...] " <-- missing a negative there I assume/hope === mako chortles 03:20 SWAT elmo, ow, right, that's an error 03:20 SWAT I somehow can't look someone in the eye and sell bad products or lie 03:20 mako the winter meeting looks pretty great 03:21 Seveas SWAT, silence is good, means people are reading your wikipage, launchpad thing etc... 03:21 iGama :) 03:21 AndrewB The meet does indeed look good [pics] 03:22 elmo +1 from me 03:23 mako yes, definitely, a +1 form me as well 03:23 Seveas good :) 03:23 mako keep on keeping the netherlands free :) 03:23 SWAT merci, thanks guys :) 03:23 SWAT I'll keep annoying people ;) 03:23 Seveas next meeting would be april 17 -- is that doable, given release stress? 03:24 elmo Seveas: well, none of the active CC (i.e. excluding cjwatson) are actively involved in that, so it's ok by me 03:24 mako well, doesn't impact me hugely FWIW 03:24 mako Seveas: pending an ACK from mark, lets plan on it 03:24 Seveas ok, how about 19:00? 03:25 mako yes, that's good 03:25 mako or even 20:00 03:25 mako to push it toward a different end of the day to help with timezone pressures 03:25 Seveas fine by me 03:25 Seveas elmo? 03:26 SWAT general question: when will the 'final' word be out if we are official members? 03:26 Seveas SWAT, when sabdfl replies :) 03:26 Seveas I'll try to send him the summaries today (have to go in 15 minutes) 03:26 jsgotangco SWAT: the weekly newsletter will be able to catch it as well 03:27 SWAT merci guys, and you're also doing a great job! 03:27 Seveas ok, thanks for joining everyone. elmo. I'm just going to assume 20:00 is ok for you, just poke me if that's not the case. === Seveas out 03:28 elmo Seveas: yes, that's fine
MeetingLogs/CC/20070403 (last edited 2008-08-06 17:01:06 by localhost)