{{{
10:07	j1mc	great!  looks like we have a good group here.
=== hyper_ch wonders what he is doing here
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10:08	j1mc	i put up an agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
10:08	j1mc	but i'm not married to it, as usual.
10:08	Jester45	o yea i here
10:09	j1mc	if you weren't at the last meeting, please review the meeting minutes from the last meeting.
10:09	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: add one more...spreading out developers meeting
10:09	Admiral_Chicago	you want to add to the agendaor should I?
10:09	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago, go ahead.
10:09	j1mc	you can add it.
10:11	j1mc	ok... shall we get started?
10:12	j1mc	"why, yes, j1mc . . .  why don't you get us started."
10:12	j1mc	ok
10:12	Admiral_Chicago	lets
10:12	vidd	question....can we include some kind of FTP program, and is there going to be SOME kind ISO burner?
10:12	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago and i are working on documentation, and ...
10:12	Jester45	lets start
10:12	Admiral_Chicago	i'm helping...
10:12	j1mc	at the last meeting we talked about different ideas for hosting the documentation.
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10:13	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: you want to talk about it or should I? I'll let you take the floor
10:13	j1mc	like yelp, or the welcome center, or firefox...
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10:13	j1mc	is we would prefer to use a modified version of the welcome center.
10:14	Admiral_Chicago	currenly yelp is about 3404
10:14	j1mc	we just need to finalize that with the three people who have done the most work on the welcome center...
10:14	Admiral_Chicago	and the footprint for the welcome center is about the same
10:14	j1mc	none of whom are here today.  :(
=== vidd thinks having it in firefox...with a hard added bookmark
10:14	j1mc	vidd, firefox is still an option, but it's just slow to load.
10:15	j1mc	and people tend to skip the docs when they can just search google.
10:15	Admiral_Chicago	the advantages are: speed, no gnome-depends..
=== vidd thinks that even if we DO have something else, it should STILL be available via firefox...even if it is slow to load
10:15	Admiral_Chicago	any other one's j1mc ?
10:15	j1mc	any other what, Admiral_Chicago ?
10:16	sacater	hmm
10:16	sacater	someone directed me here
10:16	sacater	explain
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	any other advantages for having a doc center
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	sacater: Xubuntu developers meeting...
10:16	j1mc	sacater, this is a xubuntu devel meeting
10:16	sacater	ah
10:16	sacater	well I am not official developer
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	sacater: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings <--agenda
10:16	sacater	but hey I may as well take part
10:17	j1mc	well, the two main advantages are speed and singularity of focus.  less distractions....
10:17	Admiral_Chicago	sacater: join us anywaysm we always need help
10:17	Admiral_Chicago	also, the GUI seems to be flexible and something we may want to do
10:17	sacater	Admiral_Chicago: well something that xubuntu could use
10:18	sacater	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BulletProofX <-- if this ever gets done properly, should xubuntu use it?
10:18	sacater	@schedule
10:18	ubotu	Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
10:18	crimsun	sacater: that's transparent to whatever derivative is underneath.
10:18	sacater	crimsun: hmm
10:18	crimsun	as long as the X Window System is used, it will be present if implemented.
10:18	sacater	okies
10:19	Admiral_Chicago	i'm uploading a screenshot of the welcome center, it look a lot more polished in xubuntu though...
10:19	Admiral_Chicago	http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4281/welcomead8.png
10:19	j1mc	so... we do have support from people for the documenation center... we just need to confirm with the builders of the original welcome center that they can do it.
10:20	sacater	Admiral_Chicago: lots of tabs :P
10:20	j1mc	the three primary people involved with that project are maxamillion, somerville32, and TheSheep.
10:20	Admiral_Chicago	we can use the buttons as topics as we are doing Topic based help
10:20	Admiral_Chicago	so what do you all think?
=== vidd likes it
10:21	Admiral_Chicago	i'm all for switching the welcome center to a doc center (if it can be done by the maintainers of the center)
10:21	sacater	Admiral_Chicago: i Like
10:21	sacater	tis good
10:21	Admiral_Chicago	+1 from j1mc ?
10:21	Admiral_Chicago	crimsun: what do you think
10:21	j1mc	+1  from me of course . . .
10:22	hyper_ch	anyone has seen that "welcome center/howto use thingy" in DSL?
10:22	Admiral_Chicago	hyper_ch: thoughts? and no i haven't
10:22	j1mc	hyper_ch: no, i haven't seen it.
10:22	crimsun	(loading png)
10:23	Jester45	its like the welcome center now but with dillo right? and its auto started
10:23	hyper_ch	as it is DSL it's very light (no clue what it actually is) and it has the basic modus of operation described in it... if you are looking for something lightweight maybe that can help?
10:23	Admiral_Chicago	Jester45: afaik, its written from scratch in python.
10:23	crimsun	well, having a doc center instead of a "welcome center" possibly integrates [more]  nicely with the rest of -doc
10:23	hyper_ch	is it dillo? no clue
10:23	Admiral_Chicago	not sure, you can check out the bazaar branch...
10:24	crimsun	which means the project can use Ubuntu's -doc bzr/svn and whatnot
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10:24	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: do you have the bazaar branch to check out Welcome Center's code
10:24	crimsun	I'm definitely in favor of not reinventing the wheel, per se
10:25	j1mc	i don't have it directly, but here is the launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-welcome-centre
10:25	j1mc	you can find the bzr link through there.
10:25	Admiral_Chicago	crimsun: with TBH, we have to do a lot of reinventing
10:25	j1mc	TBH?
10:25	Admiral_Chicago	so switching to a nice neat center would benefit i think
10:25	Admiral_Chicago	topic based help j1mc
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10:26	j1mc	i think what crimsun was referring to was the application, though . . .   using the welcome center would not require us to reinvent too much
10:26	Admiral_Chicago	ah yes. no it wouldn't.
10:27	crimsun	(apparently I misunderstood the "conversion" into docbook)
10:27	j1mc	i think that we're thinking that the welcome center would make a good app for our docs.  because cody and the rest of the welcome center devs aren't here, i'll send a note out to the mailing list about this.
10:27	j1mc	they can give their feedback that way.
10:27	j1mc	no matter what app / approach we take, we will still use docbook xml for the actual documentation.
10:28	crimsun	right, that's clear now
10:29	j1mc	any other discussion on this matter for now?
10:29	j1mc	:)  ok... what else do we have to discuss?
10:29	vidd	sounds like a "no" to me
10:30	nixternal	ooh, a meeting!
10:30	vidd	yes...can we include an ftp program by default?
10:30	Admiral_Chicago	nixternal: Xubuntu only. get back to KDE...
10:30	nixternal	crimsun: stop typing!
10:30	Admiral_Chicago	or your vista machine actually...
10:31	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: pick something from the last meeting
10:31	j1mc	( Admiral_Chicago, nixternal and I are in the same loco...)
10:31	nixternal	well I noticed you were talking docs
10:31	nixternal	if you needed some help clarifying for the meeting, I am here for a few minutes
10:31	Admiral_Chicago	yea, it looks like we are converting welcome center to a doc center. no yelp, straight python
10:32	Admiral_Chicago	nixternal: did you see a screenshot?
10:32	nixternal	yup, looks like a wheel reinvented..but I haven't researched it all that much
10:32	j1mc	items from the last meeting were all assigned to people who aren't here today... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
10:33	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc nixternal: do you see a problem with getting docbook and Xml to play nice with all this
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10:33	nixternal	Admiral_Chicago: it isn't a problem getting docbook/xml to play nice, this app should play nice with docbook/xml
10:33	Admiral_Chicago	very good, that was my one concern....
10:33	j1mc	good news . . .
10:34	nixternal	docbook is the dtd, xml is the markup..been in existance forever, it is up to the devs to get the app to parse it correctly
10:34	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: i have something to discuss...bazaar.
10:34	nixternal	you shouldn't have to write the documentation for the help app at all
10:34	j1mc	go ahead, Admiral_Chicago
10:35	Admiral_Chicago	well there was much discussion about moving *buntu docs to bazaar from SVN
10:35	nixternal	not *much*, a little...and it isn't happening
10:35	nixternal	anytime soon at least
10:35	Admiral_Chicago	fine what nixternal said.
10:36	nixternal	we are going to wait for some more plugins to be implemented (re laserjock) before looking at it again
10:36	vidd	j1mc, i have an item as well
10:36	Admiral_Chicago	anywyas, I was thinking that we could move our docs to a bazaar branch in one of our names temporarily
10:36	Admiral_Chicago	vidd: add it to the agenda
10:36	nixternal	Admiral_Chicago: you do realise doing that requires you to move way more than just ~/xubuntu
10:37	Admiral_Chicago	that way, jim and I can branch from each other (and anyone else interested) and merge back in
10:37	nixternal	it requires you to move everything except for edubuntu, ubuntu, and kubuntu
10:37	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: are you thinking of doing that just because we're changing the fundamental layout of xubuntu docs?
10:38	Admiral_Chicago	nixternal: hmm, i just want a way for jim and I to see each other's code without committing all the tiem
10:38	nixternal	plus seperating it from the "Documentation Project" may not be acceptable to community leaders..need to check there first (i.e. mdke)
10:38	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: yep
10:38	nixternal	Admiral_Chicago: ahhh
10:38	hyper_ch	(btw, that DSL getting started thing is Dillo)
10:38	nixternal	ok then, create a repo, to submit your code to, but I would still work out of the svn repo so you can validate your code
10:38	nixternal	otherwise you are asking for validation nightmares
10:39	j1mc	nixternal: i think we'll have to talk to you about how it works.  we'll have to take it offline or something.
10:40	j1mc	hyper_ch: DSL uses the dillo web browser to display documentation?
10:40	Admiral_Chicago	nixternal: the goal is not to switch Xubuntu docs to bzr.
10:40	nixternal	meeting in a few weeks anyways, great time to do it then maybe..easier than trying to show you online possibly
10:40	hyper_ch	j1mc: yes
10:40	Admiral_Chicago	nixternal: doc team?
10:40	nixternal	Admiral_Chicago: I know that now, but validation nightmares will haunt you when you go to send me a patch and it won't validate, then I hunt you down on the southside and inflict damage ;)
10:40	nixternal	Admiral_Chicago: Ubuntu Chicago :)
10:41	Admiral_Chicago	nixternal: ah yes..
10:42	j1mc	ok....  the "hows" we'll have to figure out.  but we know what we have to do.  Admiral_Chicago I'm still not totally convinced we need a separate repo.  I still want to talk with Cody or another member of the Xubuntu docs team.
10:43	Admiral_Chicago	is that problem? i thought there were ways to switch between svn and bzr...well okay maybe we can hold off on that
10:43	j1mc	ok...
10:43	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: neither am I, but I want a way for us to share work...
10:43	j1mc	agreed...
10:43	Admiral_Chicago	either way, let's hold off on it, i don't want nixternal to break my legs.
10:43	j1mc	heh
10:44	Admiral_Chicago	okay wahts up on the agenda?
10:44	j1mc	giving us more time between meetings...
10:44	j1mc	right now we have meetings scheduled every week and a half.  that's too frequent, i think.
10:45	crimsun	2 or 3 weeks is more reasonable
10:45	j1mc	i think every three weeks would be ok...  yeah, crimsun ...
10:45	vidd	Admiral_Chicago, how do i add to the agenda?
10:45	j1mc	vidd: edit the /Xubuntu/Meetings wiki page
10:46	Admiral_Chicago	vidd: look near the top
10:46	j1mc	let's say every three weeks, and we can always add a special meeting if we need to . . .
10:46	j1mc	does that sound ok?
10:47	Admiral_Chicago	+1 for me. every 3 weeks
10:47	Knightlust	+1
10:48	j1mc	any others?
10:48	vidd	if we are going for less frequent meetings, can we pick a time that is more convienent?
10:48	vidd	but yeah...+1 here
10:48	j1mc	vidd . . . i think we'd move our meetings to sundays.
10:49	j1mc	typically we've been alternating between sunday and wednesdays, but we'd just skip the wednesday ones.
10:49	vidd	hmmm.....that dont work for me....but i guess i can contribute via the mailing list
10:49	j1mc	http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event lists the dates.
10:49	j1mc	and times
=== vidd cant access the "edit this page" for the agenda....just says "waiting...."
10:51	j1mc	vidd: it is difficult to find times for everyone to meet . . .   :(  i sent a note out to the list at the start of the gutsy cycle, and the sunday time was ok with most people.
10:51	j1mc	vidd:  np.  what do you want to discuss?
10:51	vidd	including an FTP app and ISO burning support
10:51	j1mc	ok... go ahead...
10:52	crimsun	I presume you mean a "gui X Window System-based FTP app" :)
10:52	hyper_ch	vidd: xfburner does burn ISOs
10:52	j1mc	hyper_ch: correct . . .   vidd, what did you want to say?
10:53	vidd	crimsun, yes.... hyper_ch xfburn only makes frisbees on my system....i must need a tut to set it up right
10:53	vidd	*systems
10:54	hyper_ch	vidd: I mostly use k3b but have also used a few times xfburn and it worked fine with my BenQ dvd-rw drive
10:54	j1mc	as for the ftp program, . . .  seems like it is easy enough to add it to the system for those who need a separate ftp app.
10:54	j1mc	i don't think that ubuntu or kubuntu come with an ftp program out of the box.  (correct me if i'm wrong)
10:54	vidd	in regards to a gui ftp app...what options are there that will fit with xubuntu theme?
10:54	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: kubuntu does not
10:55	vidd	so we cant include apps that ubuntu and kubuntu dont?
10:55	hyper_ch	well, moste people don't know what ftp is... so I think it is not necessary... those who konw what ftp is will be able to get one
10:56	j1mc	i'm just not sure if we need it to be installed by default.
10:56	j1mc	i agree with hyper_ch
10:57	Admiral_Chicago	i think an FTP app is far too specialized for to be in a base install for a desktop
10:57	j1mc	as for xfburn . . .  i have to admit that i don't use it.  i just burn files from the cli.
10:57	j1mc	i should give it a try, though...
10:58	j1mc	vidd: that would be more likely to be up for replacement than adding an ftp program.
10:58	j1mc	(in my opinion, anyway).
10:58	vidd	about xfburn...everytime i mention my issues in the help room...i get comments like "we know use [xyz]  instead
10:59	j1mc	yeah...  what do others think?
10:59	j1mc	do you all have problems with xfburn?
10:59	hyper_ch	well, I can't tell... for me Xfburn, gnomebaker and k3b have worked fine whenever I used them
10:59	j1mc	is it too buggy?
10:59	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: give me a second to pull up a list of bugs in xfburn
11:00	vidd	regular data works...just iso'S DONT WORK
11:00	j1mc	thanks, Admiral_Chicago
11:00	Admiral_Chicago	Xfburn is not the package name..
=== vidd has had this issue on every machine...it is the app, not the 'puter
11:01	Admiral_Chicago	let me check..
11:02	vidd	the executable is xfburn
11:02	Admiral_Chicago	this is a KNOWN issue
11:02	Admiral_Chicago	give me a second and i'll put up the output of bughelper
11:03	Admiral_Chicago	http://pastebin.ca/523640
11:03	hyper_ch	the package is xfburn
11:04	Admiral_Chicago	hyper_ch: got it...capitalization...
11:04	hyper_ch	:) apt-file search :)
11:04	Admiral_Chicago	vidd: you are correct, ISOs do not burn
11:05	Admiral_Chicago	Xfburn is a CD burning app...but to be fair the description is "Description: CD burning tool for Xfce A graphical tool for simple CD authoring related tasks.
11:05	vidd	so can we get something lite that DOES burn iso's as well as data disks?
11:05	j1mc	hmmm...  i don't know what other options are out there, other than gnomebaker and k3b...
11:05	Admiral_Chicago	i think this discussion could go in to the ML
11:05	j1mc	this could be something to bring up with the list... (1) i think we should see about fixing the ISO bugs.
11:06	Admiral_Chicago	it's a very valid issue...
11:06	j1mc	yeah . . .
11:06	Admiral_Chicago	so take it to the ML right?
11:06	Admiral_Chicago	any objections?
11:07	vidd	none here...+1 for move to ML
11:07	j1mc	i'm not sure what kind of development is being done on xfburn.  it looks like we used the same 0.2 build for edgy and feisty.
11:07	j1mc	sure, send it out to the ML
11:08	Admiral_Chicago	yea perhaps replace it with something under active development
11:08	j1mc	any other topics?
11:08	hyper_ch	yes
11:08	hyper_ch	I got a topic :)
11:08	j1mc	sure... go ahead.
11:09	hyper_ch	just before in the xubuntu channel someone was asking for a gui file search utility
11:09	hyper_ch	so that files can be searched and deleted accross different folders
11:09	Admiral_Chicago	yes. weneed one!
11:09	Admiral_Chicago	we need*
11:09	j1mc	hyper_ch: any ideas as to what app to use?
11:10	hyper_ch	j1mc: nope... but maybelline mentioned some plugin in thunar?
11:10	j1mc	also, is this something you'd be willing to handle yourself, or would you need help from the core devs?
11:10	hyper_ch	I don't konw any such tool... i normally use slocate-db
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11:10	hyper_ch	<-- hasn't got a clue on how to get something like that up and running and how to integrate and stuff
=== Admiral_Chicago doesn't see one in the repos
11:12	j1mc	hmmm... ok.  /me is not a coder, either.
11:12	hyper_ch	I just checked the thunar page - such a plugin does not exist yet
11:12	j1mc	well, from the prior meetings, we're looking for 3-4 things to improve for gutsy.
11:12	Admiral_Chicago	perhaps discuss it with the core devs...
11:12	j1mc	if you can convince them to make it one of the 3-4 things, then . . .
11:13	hyper_ch	actually there is a way:  using the thunar special plugin creator and catfish
11:13	j1mc	from our last meeting, we've been looking at better wifi support, samba integration, and what to use for documentation.
11:14	j1mc	. . . and some games stuff.
=== j1mc doesn't know about catfish, but . . . this sounds like something that would be worth bringing up with the devs.
11:14	hyper_ch	here's the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=214059
11:15	Admiral_Chicago	okay i'm off for now, i'll read the archives...
11:15	Admiral_Chicago	good work everyone
11:15	j1mc	see you, Admiral_Chicago
11:15	hyper_ch	bye bye
11:15	Admiral_Chicago	bye j1mc hyper_ch
11:15	j1mc	hyper_ch: Kalikiana  is one of the devs.  that's a good sign.
11:16	hyper_ch	j1mc: why this reference to kalikiana ?
11:17	j1mc	hyper_ch: at the top of the forum post you linked to, it says, "Many thanks go to Kalikiana for coding it."
11:18	hyper_ch	didn't see that :)
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11:18	hyper_ch	oh yeah... I remember... isn't Kalikiana coding now a browser?
11:18	j1mc	ok . . .   this seems like it could be implemented, but i am not a dev.  the app looks pretty good, too.
=== j1mc is not sure what Kalikiana is coding . . .
11:19	hyper_ch	well, catfish is the search util... maybe an integration into thunar is not needed
11:19	j1mc	i think it would be preferred, though (the thunar integration)
11:19	Riddell	j1mc, Admiral_Chicago: kubuntu includes konqueror which does ftp
11:20	hyper_ch	Riddell: and sftp
11:20	j1mc	thank you, Riddell
11:21	j1mc	Ok . . .   we'll send the catfish / thunar idea up.  i like it, though.
11:21	j1mc	any other comments on that?
11:21	hyper_ch	cool :)
11:21	j1mc	anything else to discuss?
11:22	vidd	j1mc, i sent the xfburn to the ML
11:22	j1mc	thanks, vidd
11:22	j1mc	ok . . .   well, it looks like we'll end things here for today.
11:22	j1mc	thanks for your time, everyone.  :)
11:23	j1mc	i'll compile the meeting minutes and such, and put them up on the meetings page, and will send out a note to the list with links to the log of our session.
11:24	j1mc	bye, all
11:25	hyper_ch	bye j1mc
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11:27	DarkSun88	G'night.
11:31	Admiral_Chicago	Riddell: ah right, i meant a stand alone FTP app...
11:32	Riddell	Admiral_Chicago: never seen any point in that, ftp is a function that should be available to all apps along with any other network protocol
11:37	Jester45	is the meeting over?
11:47	Admiral_Chicago	yes i agree. i was just under the impression that we were talking about a stand along ftp app
}}}