{{{ 08:59 Keybuk ok 08:59 Keybuk let's get this show on the road 08:59 Keybuk sabdfl is at dinner, so won't be coming 08:59 Keybuk and mdz has buggered off on holiday 09:00 mjg59 Ok 09:00 mjg59 So what have we got lined up for us today? 09:00 jdong the crowd ain't as big compared to CC meetings, huh? 09:00 jbailey Keybuk: So as in, you don't have quorum anyway? 09:00 Keybuk is Jani Monoses here? 09:00 janimo here 09:00 Keybuk jbailey: we've always considered two a quorum 09:00 jbailey Ah, cool. 09:01 Keybuk janimo: you've proposed yourself for main upload privileges 09:01 janimo yes, for xfce/xubuntu packages 09:01 janimo mainly for that 09:01 Keybuk would you like to make your case 09:01 Keybuk well, I can certainly say you've been doing a lot of work on them 09:02 Keybuk have you been doing much work with the existing MOTU team? 09:02 janimo I'd like xubuntu to be supported and CDs built for it for dapper 09:02 janimo Keybuk, not much MOTU work recently 09:02 janimo only xfce related uploads === Burgwork [n=corey@S010600131016cf6f.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:02 Keybuk how would you like to improve xfce's integration with ubuntu? Janimo: the point is that once you get main 09:02 fabbione upload privileges, you can theoretically upload everything 09:02 janimo it is well integrated already, but a few more things to add 09:03 fabbione there is no distinction at the moment 09:03 janimo add gdm and make it a CD 09:03 janimo fabbione I know I have uploaded an informationa 09:03 janimo XubuntuDapperRoadmap spec today with more details 09:03 mjg59 janimo: So, what does Xubuntu involve? 09:04 janimo ubuntu standard + x +xfce packages 09:04 janimo + a few other apps === ogra would welcome xcfe in main as well as someone who cares for it like janimo does, in edubuntu the question for a slim desktop comes up a lot 09:04 janimo right now we have xubuntu-desktop 09:04 janimo the mmain gripe of usres is missing a CD install 09:04 janimo that would be alot easier if all packages were in main 09:05 mjg59 janimo: Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu? 09:05 janimo mjg59, rigth 09:05 mjg59 That is, should Xubuntu aim to fulfil the same specifications? 09:05 janimo easy to use, always free things like that you mean? sure 09:05 janimo or technical specs? 09:05 fabbione janimo: both janimo: I was thinking more in terms of 09:05 mjg59 NetworkMagic, power management, that sort of hting 09:05 janimo well then answer is yes for both 09:06 fabbione it needs to match the same quality and consistency 09:06 janimo yes, I intedn to work on power mgmt 09:06 Keybuk how would you plan to get others to help with the packaging work? 09:06 janimo and most of the related specs as I cab 09:06 janimo Keybuk, it is not much packaging involved, as we use debian packages I certainly think that the aim for anything 09:06 mjg59 in the *ubuntu namespace should be to provide roughly the same level of user experience, but it sounds like you're aiming for that 09:06 janimo I intend to work with them 09:07 Keybuk have you had to make many modifications to the packages yourself so far? 09:07 mjg59 janimo: Have you been working with them so far? mjg59, yes aiming for that but xfce is not 09:07 janimo the same user experience as gnome/kde even upstream so that transaltes here too 09:07 janimo Keybuk, yes a few 09:07 mjg59 janimo: Sure, I realise that there are limitations 09:07 janimo to packaging and to code in packages so you feel you know your way around 09:08 Keybuk Debian/Ubuntu packaging? have you done much else besides XFCE? 09:08 janimo Keybuk, some of the changes are not yet in debian, some are not upstream xfce either 09:08 janimo but pushing them actively there are even heavy technical differences between edubuntu/ubuntu (i.e. edubuntu 09:08 ogra installs a bunch odf server stuff which doesnt comply with the "no open ports" directive) 09:08 ogra so i wouldnt see the binding to tight 09:08 janimo Keybuk, I have been a MOTU since about before Hoary and worked on some merges back then 09:09 janimo but since then it is mostly xfce related changes or new packages 09:09 janimo all starting with xubuntu- 09:09 mjg59 janimo: Is there a reasonable xfce userbase right now? 09:09 Keybuk dholbach, ogra: have you worked with janimo much? 09:09 janimo some in universe some only in REVU 09:09 janimo mjg59, I don;t know how to estimate that :) 09:09 ogra Keybuk, yes, for a while, he's a longstanding member of MOTU 09:09 mjg59 janimo: Heh. Well, do you get bugs filed? 09:09 janimo I'd say 10%-15% of linux users? 09:10 janimo duno honestly 09:10 janimo yes 09:10 janimo but xfce has a _lot_ less bugs then gnome/kde even upstream, it is a lot simpler 09:10 mjg59 Sure 09:10 Keybuk anyone else got any questions for janimo ? But it sounds like there are people using the 09:10 mjg59 packages, and from what ogra says it sounds like there would be good reason to have them in main 09:10 janimo mjg59, yes 09:11 fabbione janimo: are you familiar with security? I get the occasional thank you eamail from 09:11 janimo time to time , with the request for CD images :) 09:11 fabbione if so how much? 09:11 fabbione how much can you commit for it? mjg59, absolutely ... we had a lightweight 09:11 ogra target for hoary already which wasnt completed, xubuntu might fill that gap 09:11 janimo fabbione, not much besides occasional peeks at bugtrack but I am cautios 09:11 pitti btw, there has been one XFCE related vulnerability so far, in 2000 09:11 janimo fabbione,commit for security? 09:12 janimo pitti, another code base xfce3 09:12 janimo so 0 actually :) 09:12 pitti janimo: right, what I wanted to say is, that's damn few janimo: if xubuntu enters main, it also means 09:12 fabbione providing -security support. are you ready to commit to it? 09:12 janimo shame on them 09:12 ogra heh 09:12 janimo fabbione, yes both secutiry and updates 09:12 ogra according to pitti that might be a boring job :) 09:13 janimo indeed :) janimo: does xfce ship with any suid programs 09:13 pitti for doing hardware magic? does it handle hardware at all? 09:13 janimo no suid programs 09:13 pitti janimo: like automounting, networking, etc.? 09:13 jdong pitti: I believe it uses g-v-m to handle those things my one comment is that we work very much as a team, and so far you've been mostly working alone on these packages -- so once in main, 09:13 Keybuk you'll need to both help others work with your packages and also be ready to sponsor uploads for the MOTU ... are you happy with that? 09:13 janimo for automounting we will use ivman now kubuntu does not 09:13 janimo jdong, no ivman 09:13 jdong ah, ok 09:14 jdong been quite a while since I've used XFCE 09:14 janimo Keybuk, I am happy 09:14 ogra Keybuk, he worked a lot with crimsun 09:14 ogra in a two man team 09:14 ogra (its not the one man show it seems o be) 09:14 Keybuk mjg59: any further questions? 09:14 pitti that's twice as big as our edubuntu and kubuntu teams :) Keybuk I have been working alone since MOTUs 09:14 janimo are very busy with merging and their other teams 09:15 ogra pitti, yeah 09:15 janimo crimsun is swamped with multimedia related work janimo: It would be good to see work stick 09:15 mjg59 fairly closely with the Debian packagers, but I think you've said that you plan to work with them already 09:15 sivang is this TB meeting? 09:15 janimo mjg59, I just got an alioth acount today to get svn commit access 09:15 pitti sivang: yes 09:15 janimo to help pushing our changes up 09:15 mjg59 janimo: Cool 09:16 mjg59 Keybuk: Ok, I think I'm done janimo: xfce has a file manager I 09:16 Riddell believe. does it have a web browser, music player, console? (to pick the apps I have open just now) janimo: that's good, so the Debian 09:16 pitti maintainers acknowledge you as a co-maintainer then? 09:16 Keybuk ok, your vote? 09:16 janimo Riddell, I think we'll use thunar as the default fimemanager 09:16 mjg59 +1 from me 09:16 janimo we'll have firefox, xfmedai, xfce4-teminal 09:16 Keybuk +1 from me also 09:16 Keybuk Janimo: welcome aboard 09:16 pitti congrats janimo 09:16 janimo thanks all :) 09:17 ogra YAY, welcome janimo 09:17 janimo nice to join the team 09:17 ogra :) 09:17 mjg59 Ok, moving on? How many developer candidates have we got today? 09:17 janimo I'll probably help out with other main work if needed 09:17 Keybuk Johnny Mast, are you here? 09:17 ajmitch janimo: good work :) 09:17 Keybuk Brandon Hale, are you here? 09:17 janimo pitti, yes they are ok with me working close woth them 09:18 ogra Keybuk, tseng is already in ubuntu core 09:18 Keybuk you know, I thought he was 09:18 ogra (brandon hale) 09:18 Keybuk didn't mentally match the name 09:18 sivang welcome janimo , to main? :) 09:18 Keybuk jdong: I can see you're here 09:18 jdong :) 09:18 janimo sivang, yes :) 09:18 Keybuk ok 09:18 Keybuk jdong: you've applied to join the MOTU team 09:18 sivang janimo: big congrets :) 09:18 ogra is vuntz here ? 09:18 jdong Keybuk: correct so, I guess, first off, what have you been 09:19 Keybuk working on so far and what would you like to work on? Well, my work is primarily concentrated in 09:19 jdong Backports, and Backports does the most work in Universe as a result, sometimes the Backports team 09:19 jdong needs to have changes done in Universe and such 09:20 jdong currently, the Team has Mez and slomo who are on MOTU 09:20 mjg59 jdong: Is that "the most work in Universe" or "does most of its work in Universe"? 09:20 jdong and at times that's not enough 09:20 vuntz ogra: I'm here, but I'm going away for ~30 minutes right now 09:20 ogra vuntz, just because you are on the list mjg59: a combination of both: Most requested 09:20 jdong packages are in Universe, and most "issues" we find are also stemming from Universe packages 09:21 Keybuk right, but you don't upload the resulting backports to universe? 09:21 jdong no, I don't jdong: Your phrasing seemed to suggest that 09:21 mjg59 backports did more work in universe than any other group 09:21 ogra Keybuk, the process for backports is a bit different ... 09:21 jdong mjg59: maybe I'm having a bad day with phrasing things :) 09:21 mjg59 jdong: Ok, as long as that's not what you meant, then fine :) 09:22 ogra Keybuk, elmo just triggeres them if jdong tested locally ... 09:22 jdong and ogra has been nagging for me to join MOTU too :-D 09:22 jdong ever since day one 09:22 Keybuk ogra: so you'd support jdong's application? 09:22 mjg59 jdong: So how would being an MOTU change things for you? 09:22 ogra jdong, but i can hardly judge your packaging skills ... mjg59, if changes have to be made to a 09:23 ogra package to backport fine, someone has to touch the package ... mjg59: Well, first off I hope that it would 09:23 jdong mean less of me bitching at others... and I can do work without relying on others mjg59, so it would be a requirement to have 09:24 ogra one of the backporters being able to do that, Mez is rarely here recently, he wanted to take that role ogra: I'm pretty experienced with packaging, 09:24 jdong but not with the specific Debian tools used to upload and such 09:24 mjg59 jdong: Well, we'd prefer there to be no bitching regardless of the situation... 09:24 jdong mjg59: I suppose _nagging_ would be a better word :) 09:24 mjg59 Heh. Sure. 09:24 jdong mjg59: I'm known as the one who walks in to #ubuntu-motu just to ask for stuff to be done the thing is that if a package needs minor 09:25 ogra changes, they have to be done (uploaded) by someone with upload rights .... 09:25 ajmitch jdong: who has worked with you on packaging changes that can vouch for those skills? 09:25 ogra so that will either put a burden on MOTU or we get and uploader from the bp team ajmitch: that's the thing -- I haven't really 09:25 jdong needed to do anything of that magnitude with MOTU before 09:26 jdong ajmitch: usually the types of changes Backports needs are very minor 09:26 jdong i.e. changing a version on b-d's, etc and i'd like to see jdong in that role since 09:26 ogra he merely leads backports ... but you would have to work a bit with the motu to prove your skills i public 09:26 ogra s/i/in 09:26 jdong ogra: yes, absolutely :) 09:27 Keybuk ogra: would you preferred he worked with you before being granted upload rights? 09:27 jdong ogra: and I'll try to spend time working on other stuff in MOTU too 09:27 \sh g Keybuk, not particulary with me personally 09:27 ogra but with the MOTU team so he can get some votes for his knowledge 09:27 \sh evening...too late 09:28 ajmitch hi \sh ok, I tend to concur; I'd prefer jdong to 09:28 Keybuk work a bit more with you guys so you feel confident about his skills first 09:28 ogra Keybuk, i simply cant judge his skills ince i never used any backport in ubuntu yet 09:28 Keybuk mjg59: what do you think? 09:28 ogra jdong, that would be rad :) I'm broadly in favour, but I'd agree with 09:29 mjg59 Keybuk - some more time doing general MOTU work would be good I agree with ogra...I think it's better to 09:29 \sh have an overview about his skills in common... 09:29 \sh for this, he has to come more often to -motu jdong: would you mind working a bit more 09:29 Keybuk closely with the MOTU team, and come back at the next TB meeting when they should be able to praise your skills 09:29 jdong Keybuk: sure === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:30 jdong I'll try to be in #ubuntu-motu more often 09:30 jdong and follow what the guys there want me to do :) ok, we'll postpone to then; your work looks great so far to me, but we're very much a 09:30 Keybuk team distro, so come to the next TB meeting with praise from the MOTU team for your work so far there 09:30 jdong ok, cool === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting ok ... now is anyone else here waiting for 09:31 Keybuk universe upload privileges who hasn't made it to a meeting since they proposed themselves? jdong: work with us on the rest of the 09:31 \sh merges...and bug fixes has to be done soon. I think we agree to help you out with the uploads..so we can see your work 09:31 Keybuk jbailey: are you fit and rebooted, or do you need a bit more time? 09:32 jbailey Keybuk: I'm rebooted. 09:32 jdong \sh: absolutely I need much more packaging experience for MOTU :) 09:32 Keybuk ok, Mirror Status, the floor is yours 09:32 jdong I just want to take the first step today :) 09:32 ogra jdong, thats really great, i'm happy you do that :) 09:32 mjg59 jbailey: Can you explain what the problem is, and how we should deal with it? 09:32 ogra (you know how log i nagged you for it ;) ) === jbailey looks to see which order he put them in. 09:33 jdong :) mjg59: The mirrors occasionally have trouble, 09:33 jbailey running out of space, or failing to update, etc. mjg59: Right now the only way to get this 09:33 jbailey information is by pinging James or Karl directly. 09:33 jdong more than occasionally 09:33 ogra yes, the us mirror seems to be a PITA 09:34 elmo jbailey: you realise there's LP specs about this, right? That means that getting this information is 09:34 jbailey limited by timezones / availability of two people. 09:34 jbailey elmo: Right. But that means that it's 6 months to a year away. 09:34 elmo jbailey: says who? 09:34 jbailey elmo: I don't remember seeing it on the priority list for dapper. The problem is right now when we know there 09:35 jbailey are mirror problems, that information is not exposed in a useful way. 09:35 Keybuk so what would you propose instead of the LP spec? 09:36 elmo when was the last time US mirror was broken just out of interest? 09:36 elmo because AFAIK, it hasn't broken since we started pushing it with a two stage push 09:36 jbailey elmo: Mmm. Right before ubz I think? 09:36 elmo and that was ? weeks? ago === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:36 elmo jbailey: ... 09:36 jdong elmo: I got some md5sum mismatches fairly recently (2 weeks?) 09:36 jbailey elmo: This was intended to come up at the last TB meeting, which I couldn't make. 09:36 Keybuk tbh, I don't see anything here for the TB to decide 09:36 Keybuk there's a LP spec for it, which is the long-term solution 09:36 jbailey Keybuk: mdz refered me to the TB 09:37 Keybuk and the short-term solution appears to be "ask elmo" 09:37 jbailey Right. 09:37 elmo jdong: dude, you tried to convince me you had md5sum mismatches for breezy on archive.u.c 09:37 jbailey I'm saying that short term solution isn't always useful. 09:37 Keybuk which is true for most of our archive management right now 09:37 jdong elmo: Maybe my weeks are off :) Right now that request is that we ask the 09:37 jbailey archive administrators to keep a status board of some sort on mirror status so that known issues can be looked at right away. 09:37 jdong elmo: but the first few weeks of Breezy's release 09:38 elmo jbailey: why on earth are you going to the TB in the first instance with this? 09:38 ogra which would be pre ubz 09:38 jbailey elmo: mdz refered me to the tb. 09:38 Keybuk imo, mdz should have referred you to elmo 09:39 jbailey Who ultimately makes the decisions about how these issues are handled? 09:40 elmo the same person who ultimately makes all decisions? 09:40 Keybuk mdz, sabdfl, elmo, etc. So it was probably refered here for 09:40 jbailey discussion at a time when all the parties are generally available. jbailey: in any event my point is that you 09:40 elmo didn't even try asking the people who currently run the mirrors 09:40 elmo which is, umm, nice 09:40 elmo really 09:41 jdong I gotta run, be back in like 15-20 minutes, hopefully in time :) 09:41 Keybuk mjg59: anything from your corner? elmo: My contact for distro things when 09:41 jbailey driven by customers asking me questions is always mdz. 09:41 elmo jbailey: don't be obtuse Without knowing why mdz thought it should be 09:41 mjg59 brought up here, I'm not sure we can do too much 09:41 elmo if a customer asked you about gcc, you'd go to doko, not mdz 09:41 mjg59 Can we punt this until mdz is around? 09:41 jbailey elmo: Actually, no. I'd email mdz. 09:41 jbailey Unless it was somthing I thought could be answered very quickly. yeah, that's my best suggestion right now ... 09:41 Keybuk wait until mdz is back, to see whether he had any reason for bring it here 09:41 elmo well maybe the TB should look at how you communicate with the distro team then ... 09:42 Keybuk until then, jbailey: 1) make sure the LP spec meets your needs presumably the idea of stuff going through 09:42 Kamion mdz is so that mdz can manage how much distro team time is taken up by escalated support 09:42 Keybuk and 2) buy elmo some flowers, and ask him nicely? Kamion: Yes, as well as tracking and 09:42 jbailey stuff. Before he was a bit surprised that I had been asking the distro team for things and that he hadn't been aware of it. 09:43 Keybuk ok, so the advisory list thing you're suggesting some kind of process that 09:43 Keybuk involves compiling a list of packages in *-updates and what they chance? 09:43 Keybuk uh, change? 09:44 Keybuk similar to the existing security stuff? Right - not necessarily a list, but an 09:44 jbailey explanation or advisory by email as to why updates are coming out. 09:44 pitti oh, interesting idea The notification applet stuff isn't always 09:44 jbailey sufficient to explain what's going on, or that it's coming. 09:44 pitti but isn't apt-listchanges something that should come close? 09:44 Kamion Could amber be modified to do -updates? 09:44 jbailey So in some ways it can look like a security update that showed up without an advisory. (speaking as an occasional -updates approver, 09:45 Kamion I don't want to have to construct those things by hand) 09:45 jbailey Kamion: Right. I don't have any suggestions as to the machanics of this. Certainly I'd be willing to construct these 09:45 jbailey for the -updates that I do and add them to the mix somehow. from my corner, yes something like this would 09:45 Keybuk be nice, propose it on #ubuntu-devel and rally people round to figure out how to do it well, for updates we maybe don't need md5sums 09:46 pitti and such; but still some template would be nice for version numbers etc. 09:46 mjg59 Right. I think it's reasonable to tell people why we're giving them an update. pitti: I'm not sure how a -update is 09:46 jbailey different than a security patch in that sense. 09:46 Keybuk so +1 from me, sounds like a nice thing to do 09:47 pitti jbailey: well, as long as amber generates these, I don't particularly care pitti: In any event we're delivering them a 09:47 jbailey package, so it would be nice to have the usual trappings. md5sum is the easiest part to generate. =) 09:47 Keybuk mjg59: ? === seb128_ [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-45-177.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === loogaroo [n=manuel@u-124-094.adsl.univie.ac.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:48 mjg59 +1 09:48 Keybuk ok 09:48 Keybuk jbailey: if you could lead discussion and implementation for it, go for it 09:48 jbailey No problem, i'll follow that through. 09:48 pitti Kamion: how are -updates uploads published? 09:49 Keybuk next thing on the agenda is me ... Kamion: certainly there is a girl for it 09:49 pitti which could be modified to spit out template emails? this is probably a no-brainer, but I didn't 09:49 Keybuk want to go ahead and make such a change without at least checking with some other people first === seb128_ [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-45-177.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 09:49 ogra Keybuk, breaking the wrold again ? 09:49 jbailey Mmmm. Modified girl. 09:49 jbailey (sounds ike an ingrediant) === seb128_ [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-45-177.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting currently there's no useful place during boot 09:49 Keybuk to put things like pid files, control sockets, dhcp leases, etc. 09:50 pitti /var/run isn't useful? /var/run should be that useful place, but 09:50 Keybuk it's either on the root filesystem and not yet r/w or on another filesystem altogether 09:50 mjg59 (See NFS-root cases) 09:50 Keybuk it's fine once in rc2.d, but in rcS.d it's sub-optimal 09:50 jbailey Keybuk: Is this one beast to add to your movemount collection? 09:50 jbailey +more 09:50 Keybuk so my proposal is to make /var/run a tmpfs that's always available 09:51 pitti Keybuk: when would you mount that? which would mean anything writing into a 09:51 Keybuk sub-directory of it would need to make that sub-directory if it doesn't already exist 09:51 Kamion pitti: no it's just kelly -z 09:51 Kamion pitti: which is just the thing that does accepted->installed 09:51 Keybuk pitti: probably in the initramfs, and moved to /root/var/run Keybuk: if you mount it in initramfs, then a 09:51 pitti later mount of /var in fstab would shadow it, right? and mouting it late would defeat the purpose? 09:51 Keybuk then if not already mounted, in the first init script and in the mountall script, if we mount /var 09:52 Keybuk as something else, so a move dance to keep it there 09:52 pitti heh 09:53 Keybuk so that's it really, is this sane or should I go find some other solution? for the records, we already fixed one or two 09:53 pitti packages to create /var/run/, but it certainly needs some more fixes to have complete coverage LSB does allow for packages to rely on the 09:53 pitti existence of /var/run/directory, so it could give us some hard time with keeping up 09:53 pitti (especially for universe) 09:53 pitti but I didn't actually count the number of affected packages 09:54 pitti the fix is trivial, though 09:54 Keybuk *nods* Keybuk: So the main downside is that we may 09:55 mjg59 need to alter some packages that expect subdirectories to be persistant? 09:55 \sh pitti: if this can be done after UVF...no problem with me ,) 09:55 pitti \sh: it's a trivial bug fix, sure 09:55 Keybuk mjg59: right 09:55 pitti \sh: just a mkdir -p and a chmod/chown in the init script 09:55 mjg59 Keybuk: Hm. I worry a bit about it being a semantic change. 09:56 \sh pitti: so we need a list of all packages who are bringing in some init.d scripts... Keybuk: Do we have any idea how many packages 09:56 mjg59 it would break, and have you discussed this with Debian at all? 09:56 pitti \sh: no, packages which put stuff into /var/run 09:56 pitti \sh: and either ship a directory in /var/run, or create it in postinst in main, I've found only one or two that it 09:56 Keybuk breaks, and the Debian maintainer of both seemed happy to accept the patch 09:56 fabbione there are also packages that have /var/run/ in the code... 09:56 Keybuk most of them already have patches to make it work 09:57 mjg59 Keybuk: Ok, sounds good 09:57 pitti sounds like 'early breakage' 09:57 \sh I need an aspirin, a tea, some drugs, and a list of packages for later.. \sh: this can add up to the list of remaining 09:58 sivang merges, or just add this when working on a merge :) 09:58 sivang s/add/patch/ 09:59 Keybuk ok, any further business? 09:59 Keybuk jdong: are you here? sivang: if you have such a package to merge 09:59 \sh ... do it now...or after uvf and when all the merges are done 10:00 ogra I gotta run, be back in like 15-20 minutes, hopefully in time :) 10:00 ogra that was 20min ago 10:00 Keybuk yeah, sadly I've got to run in a minute too :-/ 10:00 Keybuk the answer to jdong is the same as jbailey, make sure the LP spec is right 10:01 Keybuk several already exist, from what I can see 10:01 ogra i thought Mez worked on one at ubz 10:01 Keybuk ok, end of meeting then 10:01 Keybuk the next TB meeting will be in 4 weeks time I guess 10:01 Keybuk as two-weeks is the 27th 10:01 mjg59 Wow. That was swift. well...I think there is no need for a new 10:01 \sh process...because elmo is processing all the request when he has time...and thats pretty often.. 10:02 Kamion oh, is there time for me to slot in one question? 10:02 ogra yup... and LP is near (somehow) 10:02 Kamion forgot to put it on the agenda 10:02 Keybuk meh, go on then 10:02 jdong were my minutes too long? 10:02 Kamion if not, no worries 10:02 Keybuk is it quick? 10:02 Kamion so Debian is in the middle of killing off base-config 10:02 Kamion and moving the entire installation to the first stage 10:02 Kamion this would kill off a fair few of my bugs, so I'm inclined to follow suit 10:02 pitti that sounds nice actually 10:03 Kamion my question is whether this is an utterly insane thing to do for dapper? 10:03 Keybuk sounds nice to me, we've already done some of that? 10:03 Kamion yes, but not the big long package installation step 10:03 Keybuk ultimately I think that's possibly your call ;) 10:03 jdong Keybuk: you can drop my item from the agenda, I don't think it'll be necessary as of now 10:03 Keybuk you'd judge better than anyone else whether it's doable the downside is that it means that it takes 10:03 Kamion longer to find out whether your newly-installed system actually boots 10:03 jdong btw elmo thx very much for pushing those backports through today! 10:04 ogra and it will slow down the installation, no ? since you do everything from CD ? Keybuk: ok, I thought it was a big enough 10:04 Kamion change that I ought to bring it up, but if that's your feeling then fine, I'll judge by how quickly the code matures upstream 10:04 Kamion ogra: no, actually it'll speed it up because we can throw away archive-copier 10:04 ogra ah, k 10:04 ogra yes, thats a 10min step less ... 10:04 Kamion there'll be some extra seeking back and forward, but I think it'll be dwarfed === sivang wil be waiting to test those images :) 10:05 Kamion righto, thanks }}}