{{{ 09:00 Kamion elmo: here? 09:00 Kamion mako: here? === Kyral shuts up 09:00 Kamion no sabdfl it seems, I imagine he's travelling === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-162-127.bas503.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:00 Kamion still 09:00 elmo I'm here 09:00 Kyral Yah did anyone catch the bit about him in DW Weekly? === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:00 nalioth robotgeek: started what? 09:00 elmo and yeah sabdfl is, flying according to the board in the office 09:01 robotgeek nalioth: :) 09:01 Kamion Kyral: please move off-topic stuff elsewhere, personally I'd like to get this meeting over reasonably quickly so I can enjoy the evening :-) 09:01 mako Kamion: yes 09:01 Kamion excellent, quorum 09:01 Kyral Kamion: it was my last bit :P 09:01 Seveas coolness Increase the number of IRC ops/moderators in the major Ubuntu channels, 09:01 Kamion especially #ubuntu. The 24hr nature of the channel - and the fact that the current ops are all busy people - has meant inadequate moderator coverage at times -- Madpilot 09:01 Seveas let's get started 09:01 mako a minute early even 09:01 Kamion Seveas proposed Brian Burger and Paul O'Malley 09:02 Seveas madpilot can not attend the meeting, but the request is clear 09:02 Kamion we've talked to Brian before for membership; I think Paul too although I don't remember the conversation clearly 09:02 Kamion do we have any current #ubuntu ops here who can give us the current ops list? 09:02 Seveas Brian Burger is a member, Paul not yes === nalioth [n=Apple@ubuntu/member/pdpc.bronze.nalioth] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgwork avoids talk of nepotism 09:02 ompaul Kamion, no I have never addressed this 09:02 mako i spent a decent amount of time with paul in the past 09:02 Kamion ompaul: o 09:02 Kamion k 09:02 Seveas Kamion, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list 09:03 ompaul mako, I still owe you coffee :) 09:03 robotgeek https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCOperators 09:03 Kamion ah yes, this week it works for non-ops 09:03 Seveas Kamion, during the bot attacks I set the 'secure' option on - didn't know it made all lists unavailable. I changed that when I heard this 09:04 Kamion I agree that that list is probably not quite extensive enough for the current size and activity level of #ubuntu 09:04 Seveas and quite a few on that list aren't very active in #ubuntu 09:04 mako absolutely 09:04 Burgwork I noticed that as well 09:04 Kamion we could check with those people and remove them if they agree 09:05 Kamion there's not much point having inactive ops around 09:05 mako well, the currently problem is going to be solved by removing people 09:05 Seveas Ok, I'll poke around for that 09:05 mako that might be a good idea moving forward but we solve the immediate problem first 09:05 Kamion what timezones do Brian and Paul occupy? 09:05 Seveas is it ok to give myself a higher level in #ubuntu so I don't have to poke jdub every time? 09:06 Seveas paul is .ie, brian .ca === sivang glimpses at the CC meeting while in heavy hacking on HUB. 09:06 ompaul I am in Dublin 09:06 Kyral Might I make a suggestion? That we have an Op for every Timezone (at least one per zone)? 09:06 Burgwork madpilot is -8, same as mdz, robitaille and myself 09:06 Kamion Kyral: bit tricky for e.g. UTC-2 ;-) 09:06 Kyral eh? === nalioth is Marek Spruell 09:07 Seveas Kyral, we need a few more from .au and related, if you have candidates: talk to us 09:07 lucas I'm not really happy with the idea of having non-members being ops 09:07 Kyral oyah lol === Kamion shifts ompaul a few hundred miles west into the Atlantic Ocean 09:07 Kamion there 09:07 Kyral Seveas: it was just an idea lol === ompaul gets wet 09:07 Kyral I mean itt would mean someone was up all the time === irvin is on UTC+8 09:07 Seveas lucas, generally I'd agree but for ompaul I'm happy to make an exception (and he should be poked to apply for membership) 09:07 Kamion we were ok there while bob2 and daniels were active 09:07 jjesse is it mostly australia/asian time that is missing? 09:08 Kyral someone poke ajmitch for it :P 09:08 Seveas jjesse, that part of the world is 'understaffed' 09:08 Kamion I have no objection to Madpilot, and perhaps we can add ompaul pending his membership 09:09 Kamion but somebody really ought to look out for good people in the understaffed timezones 09:09 ompaul Kamion, consider me poked === robotgeek is a kop, and a non-member? 09:09 Kamion I don't think we can do that here 09:09 Seveas Kamion, then let me repeat my question: is it ok for me to give myself a higher level in #ubuntu so I don't have to poke jdub every time? 09:09 ompaul Kamion, I'll stick it in for the next one 09:09 Seveas robotgeek, #kubuntu ops are generally not appointed by the CC 09:10 robotgeek Seveas: hmm, okay. 09:10 Riddell I appoint them 09:10 Kamion Seveas: I would be happy with that, but you should check with jdub that he doesn't mind 09:10 Seveas Kamion, will do 09:10 Seveas do we need a quorum vote for these 2 issue or can we continue? 09:10 Kamion (and mention that I recommend having more than one person who can create ops, perhaps) 09:10 Kamion elmo, mako: any objections to Madpilot and ompaul as #ubuntu ops? 09:10 mako absolutely no objections 09:11 elmo no 09:11 Seveas ok, next 09:11 Seveas WikiLicensing 09:12 Seveas "ready to go" means that the E-mail will be sent soon? 09:13 Kamion hang on Seveas :) 09:13 Kyral lol 09:13 Kamion mako: did you ever get a chance to talk to that lawyer? 09:14 Kamion about the wikipedia PD-self template? 09:14 Kamion I rewrote the e-mail earlier, and would appreciate elmo and/or mako eyeballing it 09:14 mako i think i asked greg and didn't hear back.. i should email SFLC or the wikipedia lawyer who i met a couple weeks ago 09:14 Kamion http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing/Email Someone make sure I am right on this, we are considering a CC-PD license 09:14 Kyral (I apologize for asking this almost every meeting, school is owning my brain) 09:14 mako ok there is still a technical task to be done in extracting those email 09:14 heno addresses from the launchpad and moin records. So in that sense we are not ready to go Kyral: more or less yes, see 09:15 Kamion http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-01-24.html to catch up 09:15 Seveas Kyral, yes, CC-PD with additional statements for countries where PD is not allowed === ekp [n=ed@cpe-24-195-111-58.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:15 Kamion well, just PD, not CC-PD really 09:15 Kamion it hardly makes a difference for PD :) 09:15 Kyral Kamion: ty 09:15 mako yes 09:16 Kamion heno: is that a big task? 09:16 elmo it's a bit comma tastic, but looks ok on first read === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jpatrick [n=patrick@ubuntu/member/jpatrick] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:16 Kamion I tend to overuse commas, feel free to reword as necessary 09:16 heno Kamion: probably not for someone eho knows both systems. It's slightly beyond me though, I'm affraid 09:16 Hobbsee morning all, sorry i'm late, i dont feel too well today 09:17 mako jean-baptiste soufron, the primary lawyer for wikipedia, should be online soon and i can corner him 09:17 Kamion heno: do we have somebody who knows how to do both, or will it be a coordination task? 09:17 elmo Kamion: it's, okay, I'm, not, really, fussed === Tonio_ [n=tonio@d80-170-207-118.cust.tele2.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:17 Kamion mako: if you could let mdke know what the result of that is, that'd be good 09:17 mako Kamion: ok 09:18 mako it looks fine to me 09:18 Kamion ok, I propose we let mdke coordinate the rest of this and move on, then 09:18 mako my major concerns before seem to be addressed === mako nods to Kamion 09:18 heno I think Gustavo or Adam should have no problem with it === LinuxJones [n=willy@hlfxns01bbh-142177197219.ns.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:18 Kamion elmo: my wife says "now if you'd written that it would only have had two commas in it" === Kamion scratches his head 09:19 Kamion ok, betterwikidocs 09:19 Seveas BetterWikiDocs specification - can a server be made available to deploy this? (mdke and hno73) <-- Doesn't sound like a CC issue to me, TB rather 09:19 mako neither really 09:19 elmo err, yeah, neither 09:19 Kamion I have to say I think it would be better to move the developer documentation 09:19 Kamion than to move the user stuff 09:19 mako i'talk to mark/jane 09:19 Seveas kamion++ 09:20 Kamion it's much easier to track down all developers and say "please use developer.ubuntu.com now" or whatever 09:20 mako sure 09:20 Seveas the wiki has already moved several times 09:20 Kamion we had udu.wiki.ubuntu.com, I never really worked out why we merged 09:20 Seveas having a developer.ubuntu.com also attracts new developers ;) 09:21 heno Kamion: but there is also lots of stuff that is neither developer stuff nor docs, but people's private pages and such 09:21 Kyral hehe === sorush20 [n=sorush20@82-43-184-143.cable.ubr07.newm.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:21 heno 'my experience with ubuntu' etc 09:21 sorush20 hi 09:21 sorush20 comuunity council people.. 09:21 Seveas heno, then et the docteam fold them into the official docs, official docs shouldn't be a wiki... === mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:21 jjesse which is what is happening with h.u.com correct? 09:21 jjesse help.ubuntu.com 09:21 Seveas 'them' being the good documentation wikipage 09:21 Kamion heno: right, not sure I have a good answer for that 09:21 mdz I'm not particularly fussed either way about which wiki the specs go in, so long as the links from Launchpad work 09:22 Burgwork Seveas, we are looking at a long term plan for better wiki docs. Moving them is the first step of that 09:22 Kamion things start out as randomly-hacked-together pages, and move up to the status of documentation 09:22 heno Kamion: but, yes moving the dev stuff would also help 09:22 Burgwork Seveas, as the doc team cannot agree on further steps, but we do agree on moving it 09:22 Kamion mdz: and as long as we stop moving them at some point. :-) 09:22 heno if we had specs in a separate wiki we could structure it better 09:23 heno dapper/SpecName 09:23 Seveas Burgwork, then I think the plan should be worked out completely before we start moving things around for no apparent reason 09:23 Kamion heno: also seems to me that the search problems could be addressed by cleverer searching that knew how to search multiple sites 09:23 Kamion assuming they were both on the same machine, I guess 09:23 heno and then it would be obvious what generation it was 09:23 Burgwork Seveas, we can't agree on two wikis or one for the doc wiki 09:23 heno we could do that anyway of course 09:24 heno Kamion: the 'search problem' is that you get too many hits, not too few let's assume we had a separate "official documentation wiki". what would 09:24 Kamion the process be for migrating a page somebody hacked together to the doc wiki? 09:24 Burgwork Kamion, that is the part under contention 09:24 Kamion heno: I'm referring to "users having to search more than one place" in BetterWikiDocs 09:25 heno they would be encouraged to start it there in the first place 09:25 heno (sounds unrealistic actually) 09:25 Seveas heno, great, so another wiki filled with half-baked pages.... 09:25 heno that would clearly work better for devs 09:25 jjesse the "official" docs would have to be editable (if that's a word) by only wiki team members 09:25 Kamion yeah, that doesn't sound overly plausible to me I must say 09:25 Burgwork Seveas, I disagree 09:25 Kamion jjesse: which will exclude a lot of contributors 09:26 robotgeek jjesse: which kind beats the point of a wiki 09:26 Kamion people start out editing a few pages of the wiki and *then* become wiki team members 09:26 Kamion maybe 09:26 jjesse but if the "official" docs are moved from the more generic docs 09:26 mako why don't we just have pages with categories === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.55.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:26 jjesse then they can be better maintained 09:26 Seveas mako++ 09:26 mako with articles marked as good well look at it as wiki --> docs so in the wiki it is a $factoid if it 09:26 ompaul makes it to docs or there is a better existing doc then the wiki page gets a reference to the other page at the top and a log of visits but that is all too much for here 09:26 Seveas but then we need people who organize that 09:26 mako wikipedia has 1,000,000 articles 09:26 mako or near that in english 09:27 Kamion and most of the wikipedia articles I ever actually hit in practice are really good 09:27 Burgwork mostly the good articles are marked by not having CategoryCleanup on them 09:27 mako and it's prefectly readable because they have many categories 09:27 ompaul what does wiki.ubuntu have in it? 09:27 mako Kamion: yes, but they also have articles marked as "good" and "featured" 09:27 Burgwork ompaul, everything, that is the problem 09:27 Kamion mako: yeah 09:27 ompaul Burgwork, no numbers 09:27 mako Kamion: and if you limit your search to those, you'll get good stuff 09:27 mako the point is, that there's no need to create seperate wikis 09:27 ompaul Burgwork, if you measure it you can do something with it 09:27 heno using categories doesn't solve the search problem 09:27 mako you may really want EVERYTHING on a topic 09:27 Burgwork we still have the issue of seperation of help content 09:27 mako heno: it does if you can limit your search to within a particular category 09:27 Seveas categories and 'good/bad/needs work' tags will help 09:27 Kamion heno: it does if you make the search exclude CategoryCleanup by default 09:27 Kamion e.g. 09:28 Burgwork people simply don't go to wiki.ubuntu.com for help 09:28 heno unless we improved the search to include/exclude certain pages 09:28 mako Burgwork: what makes you think that having they'll go to the new split set of wikis then? 09:28 Burgwork Kamion, but I want my searches to include it 09:28 jjesse Burgwork: i disagree 09:28 Kamion Burgwork: --> "by default" <-- 09:28 Mithrandir Burgwork: "default" 09:28 heno right, but that requires development 09:28 Kyral most of our "profile" pages also on are the Wiki yes? 09:28 jjesse Burgwork: i start at w.u.c and then do a google search if i can't find it 09:28 mako heno: that is precisely what i'm suggesting 09:28 lucas I'd prefer to have a CategoryUserDoc rather than a CategoryCleanup (means pages would be out by default) 09:28 Kamion heno: I don't think we can get away from that - it's not a trivial problem 09:28 Burgwork Kamion, I was pointing out that there are two many use cases for the main wiki 09:29 Burgwork s/two/too 09:29 heno mako: I think that would be good 09:29 Seveas Kyral, they (should) have "CategoryHomepage", easy to filter too the time necessary to have moin have a search that is restricted by 09:29 mako categories is probably not significantly less than the time needed to maintain a farm of wikis 09:29 heno but a separate spec perhaps 09:29 Kamion Burgwork: dunno, I'm beginning to think that's a feature 09:29 Burgwork Kamion, no it is not when you run across a spec when you want help 09:29 Kamion Burgwork: that's a search problem 09:29 Mithrandir mako: you'd want cross-wiki search, though. 09:29 mako specs *should* be marked as specs 09:29 mako and docs should be marked as docs 09:29 Burgwork then we need to be ruthless about moving specs under a main spec page 09:29 mako and there should be a prominent link to a doc only search 09:30 Burgwork so that the link would be wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/Blah 09:30 mako Burgwork: sure 09:30 jjesse the doc team then should be the one always cleaning up the wiki or expected to keep the wiki clean Burgwork: it's a feature that, when we have a new project that needs wiki 09:30 Kamion pages, it can just start rather than having to get a new wiki domain set up 09:30 Kamion Burgwork: that would be fine 09:30 heno splitting it up also helps solve the scaling problem though 09:30 mako Burgwork: we'd have be ruthless about moving them off the wiki in the alternative situation 09:30 Burgwork still ooks like a hack to me 09:30 Kamion we'd have to go through and fix up links from launchpad 09:30 Kamion Burgwork: it's what categories are FOR. :-) 09:30 mako well, why not in-text categories 09:30 mako like WP 09:30 heno which is that the wiki will eventually outgrow the hardware 09:31 mako we could just have a {{spec}} tag or something 09:31 heno elmo: ^ ? 09:31 Kamion heno: I don't think developer specifications are going to be the cause of that 09:31 Burgwork Kamion, yes, but what does a CategoryNetworking do on the main wiki? specs? docs? 09:31 mako the way they're implemented doesn't really matter 09:31 Burgwork do you see the issue? 09:31 Kamion Burgwork: no 09:31 Kamion Burgwork: perhaps you could explain better? 09:31 mako Burgwork: both 09:31 Burgwork mako, that is much much worse 09:31 mako Burgwork: you can belong to CategoryNetworking and CategorySpec 09:31 robotgeek i am sure the search can be hacked to exclude specs, provided they are all in one Category 09:32 elmo heno: I don't think that's a good reason _by itself_ to split stuff up, we've plenty of avenues to explore to scale stuff up before going there 09:32 Burgwork but then those that want to search specs are screwed 09:32 Kamion I don't see a lot of value of a spec having any other category 09:32 robotgeek with an option to search advanced? 09:32 heno elmo: ok, thanks 09:32 Burgwork I do 09:32 Kamion there aren't enough of them for that, and they're generally clearly named 09:32 ompaul search should not discriminate 09:32 mako alright 09:32 Burgwork I want to see all networkign specs 09:32 mako Kamion: ok 09:32 Burgwork another major issue is time by doc team members cleaning non-dcos on the wiki 09:32 Burgwork I have easily spent 20 plus hours doing so 09:32 Kamion specs are the responsibility of the development team 09:33 Burgwork if the wiki was split, I wouldn't have to do any of those 09:33 mako Burgwork: you're trading a complex searching problem for a fragmentation problem 09:33 Kamion the wiki team should feel free to punt those to us === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:33 Kamion you don't have to do them *now* - you can tell development to sort it out === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:33 mdke_ evening, sorry for lateness 09:33 Kamion if everyone does their own specs it doesn't take long to do whatever it is 09:33 Burgwork realistically, that is not an option 09:33 Kamion why not? 09:34 Kamion well, s/tell/ask/, but anyway === Madpilot [n=bburger@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:34 Burgwork because often the development team does page editing/moving/creation without a holistic view 09:34 Burgwork and that is not their fault 09:34 Madpilot hi everyone 09:34 Kamion you can have the holistic view and ask other people to do the actual shuffling of their own specs 09:34 Burgwork ie, they create a page that causes the doc team grief, without even knowing about it 09:34 Kamion if you take work on yourself, you can't blame other people for you doing all the work :) 09:35 Kamion the doc team has, to my knowledge, never communicated those issues to the development team 09:35 Burgwork yes, I have not done so 09:35 Kamion I suggest doing so :) 09:35 Kamion then it will be less likely to be a problem in future 09:35 Burgwork there is another problem, that of recent changes 09:35 mako Burgwork: some of these problems can be solved with education :) 09:35 mako don't use a technical solution to a social problem 09:36 Kamion RecentChanges is mostly used by wiki contributors, I'm guessing it is currently very difficult to seperate docs out from non-docs when 09:36 Burgwork looking at what has changed. Which means a person realisitically has to look at all changes 09:36 Kamion now that sounds like something amenable to a technical solution ... === mako nods Kamion 09:36 Mithrandir enhance the recentchanges page by putting the category there too, then. === Burgwork raises Mediawiki 09:36 mako Burgwork: what about it? 09:37 Burgwork mediawiki is designed for presentation wikis, ala documentation and encyclopedias 09:37 sorush20 where is the adgenda 09:37 mdke is this a general discussion of the BetterWikiDocs spec? 09:37 mako sorush20: in the topic It is hard to differentiate docs from non-docs. Good docs from bad docs, 09:37 HiddenWolf and doc's don't have a mandatory "applies to $version" thing, so it is trial and error to figure out if it'll work a lot of the time. 09:37 Burgwork clear seperation of talk and article, watchlists, internal wiki communication 09:37 heno mdke: I emailed you a transcript so far 09:37 mako HiddenWolf: the docteam can tag docs as "notable" if you'd like 09:38 mako or with version information 09:38 Burgwork for instance, if someone edits a page in our wiki, I have no way of communicating with them without knowing their email 09:38 mdke heno, ok thanks 09:38 mako Burgwork: what is the MW funcionatliy you are missing here? 09:38 mako Burgwork: talk pages? 09:38 ompaul sorush20, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda 09:38 Burgwork mako, internal wiki communication via user talk pages mako: I'm not much of a guru on the wiki, but a good way to seperate good 09:39 HiddenWolf docs from bad docs and figure out if it'll work on your version would really help. 09:39 Burgwork mako, some of which can be hacked into our wiki, but some cannot easily 09:39 heno Burgwork: it should be fairly easy to set up better provision for talk pages 09:39 Madpilot HiddenWolf: the versioning thing is a writing problem, not as much a technical issue, AFAIK 09:39 mdke heno, ok, looks like discussion has just spiralled out off topic :( 09:39 mako Burgwork: so *user* talk pages 09:39 heno we could even use the comment macro 09:40 sorush20 who is the meeting leader? 09:40 mako Burgwork: i've never found user talk pages hugely useful in WP personally 09:40 Burgwork mako, heno, Kamion lets move on 09:40 mako sorush20: myself, kamion and elmo are the council members 09:40 Burgwork heno, can you and I chat about what I would like out of our wiki after the meeting? 09:40 Burgwork mako, Kamion this spec needs further work before being brough back before the CC 09:41 Kamion yeah, I agree === mako nods to Burgwork 09:41 Seveas This is going way beyond CC territory... Burgwork: I have no idea how the mediawiki thingy works, but I know that 09:41 Mithrandir if you tried to communicate with me through editing some wiki page, you'd fail, unless it gets sent to me by email or tells me on IRC. How does the usertalk thingy work in mediawiki? 09:41 Kamion it would be nice if we could be presented with a decision to make, more than an open-ended discussion :) 09:41 heno Burgwork: sure, but perhaps we should do it on a mailing list so others can participate 09:41 mdke Kamion, the topic was about the server 09:41 Kamion true 09:41 mako FWIW, it's an interesting discussion :) 09:41 Burgwork heno, ok 09:41 Kamion elmo: can you answer that much (unless you did so already and I missed it) and we can move on? 09:42 Kamion as in, assuming it were determined to be worthwhile 09:42 mdke :-( 09:42 sorush20 have you decied to have more ops in the ubuntu channels? 09:42 elmo phone, brb 09:42 Seveas sorush20, yes, that has been earlier on the agenda 09:43 Seveas ok, let's move on then, elmo can answer when whe gets back :-) 09:43 Seveas robotgeek, tepsipakki and Hobbsee are the new member candidates 09:43 Seveas robotgeek, give us your 3-line summary please === robotgeek is Venkat Raghavan 09:43 mako brilliant I am VenkatRaghavan. I currently live in New Jersey (moved from Texas 2 09:43 robotgeek days ago!), though originally from Hyderabad, India. Been using Ubuntu since the Hoary release. Yes, I dumped OS X for Ubuntu! I am a member of NewUserMentors, WikiTeam and the Kubuntu Team. I have done lot of irc support in the past (sometimes more than 10 hours a 09:44 robotgeek day!), and in the recent months started getting involved in the Documentation work. More details on my wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenkatRaghavan In the immediate future, I want to make sure Kubuntu Desktop Guide is complete in time for Dapper. I also want to more involve myself more in 09:44 robotgeek the Documentation Team activities. Since I am an Engineer by profession, I want to improve my packaging skills so that I may package to help the Motu Science Team. 09:44 robotgeek :) 09:44 jjesse robotgeek has been working hard and doing a great job on the kubuntu desktop guide 09:44 Seveas robotgeek gets several \o/ from me for IRC work 09:44 jjesse he's picked up a project that was sitting still 09:44 Seveas he's very active 09:44 jpatrick Seveas: ++ 09:44 mdke robotgeek is already a great member of the documentation team, he's contributed loads of wiki pages and good documentation, as jjesse says 09:44 nalioth robotgeek is quite helpful on the irc channels === Burgwork can also vouch for robotgeek === Kyral too === irvin too! === manicka too === Madpilot likewise 09:45 robotgeek wow 09:45 mako yeah, wow === ompaul says he is top guy 09:45 Kyral basically if you say no, you have a lot of angry people now ;P 09:45 Madpilot robotgeek: the whole cheering section has come out :P 09:45 sorush20 robotgeek: has helped me too alot 09:46 Hobbsee hehe doesnt seem like i need to say anything 09:46 Riddell I support robotgeek, he's doing good work on the kubuntu desktop guide 09:46 jpatrick I've seen him a lot on irc 09:46 Kyral He's helpful in #ubuntu, he has done good work with EasyUbuntu 09:47 Kyral and he's kept me from losing it a couple ttimes (big job lol) 09:47 ompaul his other work has saved me and others plenty of man hours 09:47 ompaul s/man/person/ 09:47 ompaul forgive the aged === robotgeek waits, anxiously 09:48 manicka his work on the new wifi wiki page is outstanding 09:48 Kamion looks like sustained contribution to me and there seems to be a fair bit of wiki work there 09:48 Seveas robotgeek, probably mako, Kamion and elmo are now reading your wikipage, LP profile etc 09:48 Kamion robotgeek: what's happening with EasyUbuntu at the moment? 09:49 LaserJock robotgeek is active in the docteam and has also expressed interest in doing some packaging for MOTU Science 09:49 Kyral LaserJock: he has? *blink* 09:49 robotgeek Kamion: fixing a few remaining bugs, i'm quite new to python 09:49 Kyral yah you guys are still waiting for me to package it no? :/ 09:49 sorush20 meetings are not as fast as I would expect them to be 09:49 mako agreed 09:50 Kamion robotgeek: well, I'm more asking what the current state is from the perspective of somebody who knows nothing about it 09:50 LaserJock sorry, got some lag :( 09:50 mako looks good so far 09:50 Kamion last I heard was when the automatix/forums stuff came up here 09:50 Kamion which probably wasn't the best advert :) 09:50 robotgeek Kamion: it works well, it needs to be packaged in a deb format. Kyral is helping 09:51 mako yeah, this is good stuff 09:51 Seveas Kamion, easyubuntu is nothing like automatix fortunatel 09:51 mako robotgeek: how long have you been involved? 09:51 robotgeek mako: for about 5+ months now 09:51 nalioth Kamion: robotgeek was involved in easybreezy, a fork of automatix. the project has since merged back with easyubuntu (the original) 09:51 mako great 09:51 mako well, i'm happy with membership 09:51 sorush20 I find automatix to work better than easy ubuntu.. 09:51 Seveas sorush20, -ETOPIC 09:51 Kyral haha, beat me to it Seveas 09:52 _jason wait, I can say robotgeek is awesome too :) He's always on irc and working hard on easyubuntu 09:52 Kamion sorush20: ... this is why meetings take ages === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:52 robotgeek thanks _jason :) 09:52 Kamion I'm also happy with membership 09:53 Seveas did elmo return already? 09:54 Seveas if not, should we move on and let him catch up later? 09:54 elmo sorry, back 09:54 Seveas ah, cool === LaserJoc1 [n=mantha@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:54 elmo move on, I'll catch up 09:54 Seveas ok 09:54 Seveas next up: tepsipakki === tepsipakki is Timo Aaltonen 09:55 Seveas idle tim 40 minutes, so he could be around 09:55 Seveas ah 09:55 tepsipakki let me get organized ;) I'm an UNIX administrator working part time for the Computing Centre of Helsinki University of Technology in Finland. Current work involves 09:55 tepsipakki administering 200+ Linux (Debian Sarge atm) workstations and some Tru64-UNIX servers. When not working, I'm trying to finish my master's degree (major: semiconductors and materials of electronics). Interests include GNOME, NFSv4, installer, sysadmin tools etc. I've made 09:55 tepsipakki some patches here and there, most of it is documented on my wikipage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimoAaltonen 09:55 Kamion I've been working off and on with tepsipakki on various automatic installation issues for some time 09:56 Kamion he's more willing than most to dive in and get his hands dirty, and has been very useful at nagging me to follow up on things 09:56 Kyral Jeez, where were you guys when I was installing Ubuntu on 20 lab computers... 09:56 Kyral ;P 09:56 tepsipakki =) 09:56 tepsipakki I have a system that only needs to be documented somewhere 09:56 Hobbsee Kyral: off at the pub, why do you ask? :P 09:56 Seveas Hobbsee, Kyral: please stick to the topic 09:56 Kyral sorry... 09:56 Hobbsee sorry 09:57 Kamion ... so I'm more than happy with tepsipakki for membership 09:57 mako yes.. tepsipakki is great by me 09:57 Kamion tepsipakki: (incidentally lamont's looking at getting NFSv4 support into mount, and we may get it in before feature freeze with any luck) 09:58 elmo ack robotgeek 09:58 mdke well done robotgeek 09:58 Seveas elmo, thanks 09:58 tepsipakki Kamion: yes, I just received info that a new version of util-linux is in sid now 09:58 Seveas welcome robotgeek! 09:58 robotgeek thanks all! WRT server, heno can always have a server if he asks for it, but given 09:58 elmo this isn't exactly uncontentious, I'd like some higher power sign in before any migration off of the main wiki happens 09:58 irvin congrats robotgeek... it's about time ;-) 09:58 jpatrick congrats robotgeek 09:58 robotgeek Riddell: that was fast :) 09:59 elmo ack tepsipakki too 09:59 mdke well done tepsipakki 09:59 Kyral welldone :D 09:59 elmo (tho I'm somewhat disappointed you're not the dovecot author. same firstname and nationality. close. but not.) 09:59 lamont Kamion: nfsv4 change was uploaded to debian just after dinstall today, should be syncable tomorrow 09:59 Seveas welcome abourd tepsipakki 09:59 tepsipakki gee, thanks! 10:00 Seveas (you got approved really fast, amazing!) 10:00 Seveas last candidate: Hobbsee (Sarah Hobbs) 10:00 Hobbsee hey 10:00 Seveas Hobbsee, please give us the 3-liner I am Sarah Hobbs, a university student in Sydney, Australia, doing a 10:00 Hobbsee Bachelor of Technology in Optoelectronics. I've been using linux since june 2005, first Ubuntu, and then Kubuntu from that time onwards, usually running a tripple boot machine of XP, kubuntu breezy and kubuntu dapper. I'm a member of the kubuntu team, am involved in moderating and providing 10:00 Hobbsee support in IRC, and involved in bug writing/fixing and some packaging. My Wiki Page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hobbsee In the future, I want to learn more about packaging, so I can contribute 10:00 Hobbsee more to the ubuntu community, in particular the kubuntu section, and possibly the MOTU-science section as well. I also want to continue on with the IRC support. 10:00 Hobbsee darn copy key doesnt work as fast as i'd like it to :P === benje_ [n=benje@cereli-01.cereli.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robotgeek can vouch for irc support! === mdke goes to bed, good night everyone === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 10:01 dholbach Hobbsee: I hope to see you in the MOTU team soon! :) 10:01 nalioth Hobbsee: is quite knowledgable and helpful to many in irc 10:01 Hobbsee dholbach: i hope so too! === jpatrick can vouch for IRC and packages! 10:02 Riddell I support Hobbsee's membership, she's done some good bug work and #kubuntu operator 10:02 mako Hobbsee: how long have you been contributing? 10:02 Kamion ah, so you're part of the reason the kubuntu team manage to get Flight CDs tested so quickly :) 10:02 elmo Kamion: stop trying to deflect the blame for the bandwidth damage 10:03 Hobbsee mako: on irc, since around...*thinks* - probably a couple of months before breezy was released 10:03 elmo ;P 10:03 Hobbsee and packaging only in the last couple of months 10:04 Riddell she first appeared on #kubuntu-devel 2005-10-08, was on #kubuntu few a few months before that 10:04 sorush20 I don't think hobbsee has done as much as the other two members.. === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.55.dynamic.phpg.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 10:04 Seveas sorush20, that's irrelevant 10:04 Kamion that does seem to be true, but OTOH it looks like fairly good going 10:05 mako the criteria is significant and sustained === robotgeek remembers Hobbsee from way back, she was an op before I got kubuntu 10:05 mako contributins.. different people have different amounts of time to give 10:05 Kamion and packaging work is valuable === Kyral nods 10:05 elmo "sudo cp -i --reply=no" *boggle* 10:05 elmo what's the point of that, JOOI?@ 10:06 Kamion elmo: where's that? 10:06 Kyral .....elmo, mischan? 10:06 sistpoty Hobbsee has some packages on revu, and iirc, what I've seen in packaging is promising... and Hobbsee is often around in -motu 10:06 LaserJoc1 sistpoty++ 10:06 jpatrick Hobbsee has a good bug buster too 10:07 jpatrick I think she has a record for Kubuntu bugs === Hobbsee waits nervously 10:08 elmo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion 10:08 Seveas Hobbsee, be patient 10:08 elmo no idea if Hobbsee added that, it just jumped out at me elmo: i did some work on that page a while ago - i havent recently, 10:09 Hobbsee because i havent been usign that version of firefox, using 1.5 on dapper from the repositories 10:09 Hobbsee s/usign/using 10:09 Kamion testimonials from Riddell/jpatrick and others are good for me if they reckon she's been doing good bug and packaging work 10:09 sorush20 I think she should be allowed to be a member.. 10:09 elmo wow there are some interesting usernames in the wiki 10:09 Kamion elmo: the one I suspect you're looking at is a troll 10:10 mako Kamion: ? 10:10 Kyral check the changes log 10:10 Kamion mako: one "Niggerplease" editing FirefoxNewVersion 10:10 sorush20 Hobbsee: how are you aiming to contribute to the opensource world after your degree? 10:10 mako just found it 10:11 mako alright, i 10:11 Riddell sorush20: ? she's only about to start... 10:11 mako i'm happy with Hobbsee for membership 10:11 Seveas that's one down, two to go 10:11 Hobbsee sorush20: probably doing some more packages, more IRC - basically continuing what i've already started 10:11 elmo ack 10:12 sorush20 I have noticed that there are a lot of howto's been done on wifi by all the new members.. 10:12 Kamion oh, is anyone processing the launchpad tweaking for new members? 10:12 Kamion if not I'll do it 10:12 Seveas sorush20, tbh: that is bad news, it means wireless is still difficult 10:13 mako Kamion: i'll do it 10:13 Kamion mako: thanks 10:13 Seveas Kamion, what's your 'verdict' about Hobbsee? 10:13 Hobbsee Seveas: indeed it is - that's one thing i'd love to change 10:13 sorush20 maybe the three new members should network together to make one unified document.. to make things less confusing.. 10:13 Kamion Seveas: 21:09 < Kamion> testimonials from Riddell/jpatrick and others are good for me if they reckon she's been doing good bug and packaging work 10:13 Seveas Hobbsee, contribute to NetworkManager then 10:13 Kamion that's an ack if it wasn't clear 10:13 Seveas Kamion, it is, I just missed it 10:13 Seveas Hobbsee, welcome aboard! 10:14 Hobbsee thankyou so much! 10:14 nalioth Hobbsee: robotgeek: welcome! 10:14 Hobbsee :D 10:14 Kamion Hobbsee: (do test out network-manager in dapper and see if it works for you, if you haven't already) 10:14 LaserJoc1 congrats Hobbsee 10:14 Kamion (and others) 10:14 Seveas nalioth, don't forget tepsipakki 10:14 Hobbsee Kamion: will do, but i use kde 10:14 nalioth tepsipakki: welcome to the next level 10:14 dholbach welcome Hobbsee, robotgeek and tepsipakki 10:14 Kamion ah, there's a kde equivalent I believe but I don't know the name 10:14 Riddell knetworkmanager :) 10:14 sorush20 Hobbsee: we need more women in Ubuntu 10:14 Hobbsee Kamion: knetworkmanager, from cvs, which i havent figured out yet 10:14 Riddell (but it requires a CVS netwok-manager) 10:14 Kamion OK. Any other business? 10:15 Seveas Time and date of next meeting 10:15 Kamion propose 12:00 two weeks time 10:15 Kyral as always... 10:15 Seveas please decide now instead of one-day notice 10:15 Kamion UTC 10:15 Seveas fine to me 10:15 tepsipakki Hobbsee: congrats, and good luck with your studies (I've done some microfabrication courses :) 10:15 Kyral ....ick...thats like 0700 my time 10:15 elmo that's middle of the UI sprint 10:15 Kyral oh well 10:15 mako wait.. 10:15 Seveas will sabdfl be available? 10:15 elmo dunno who's going to it 10:15 mako let me check that time 10:15 Hobbsee tepsipakki: thankyou, you too :) 10:15 tepsipakki robotgeek: congrats to you too :) 10:15 mako that should be fine 10:15 robotgeek thanks tepsipakki ! you too! 10:16 Kamion oh, bloody UI sprint - I'm scheduled to go to it, yes 10:16 tepsipakki and once more thanks to all! 10:16 mako robotgeek, tepsipakki, Hobbsee: i've approved your membership in LP 10:16 Kamion if you can do it without me that week that would be good 10:16 Hobbsee mako: thankyou! 10:16 elmo Kamion: sabdfl will be there too ... 10:16 robotgeek thanks mako 10:16 elmo (won't he?) 10:16 tepsipakki mako: rock! 10:16 Kamion hmm, guess he would want to be 10:16 mako it's been a few meetings 10:16 mako with all the traveling 10:16 Seveas indeed 10:16 Kamion we could force minions to deliver us lunch 10:16 mako quick, while he's aweay 10:17 Kyral lol 10:17 mako lets pass some outrageous new rule 10:17 Seveas he wants to bring up the complaint about #ubuntu - has anybody already heard more about that? mako/kamion? 10:17 Kamion ok, I'll send mail to community-council@ proposing that time and let him respond 10:17 elmo mako: how about we depose him? 10:17 Kyral lol 10:17 mako elmo: if he never comes to meetings, that's hardly necessary ;) 10:17 Kyral All Members get $1 a day pay from Canonical lol 10:17 Kamion we'll make it provisionally 1200 on 7 March until then 10:17 jpatrick cool 10:18 mako Kamion: good 10:18 Kamion Seveas: not apart from that mail chain 10:18 nalioth Kyral: is that retroactice to date of membership? :P 10:18 Kyral lol 10:18 mako elmo: and plus, i definitely don't want his job :) 10:18 Seveas Kamion, ok, neither have I apart from some supicions from the community 10:18 Kyral what complaint against #ubuntu btw? 10:19 sorush20 Kyral really? 10:19 Seveas Kyral, it'll come up at the next meeting 10:19 mako i'll leave him to suits and press releases and the pretty girls in karaoke bars 10:19 Kyral Seveas: okay 10:19 Kamion Kyral: alleged overenthusiasm about banning people for mention of automatix 10:19 Seveas mako, pubcon! 10:19 Kyral oyy....that is annoying 10:19 sorush20 Kyral: is that USD? 10:19 mako yes.. 10:19 Kamion ok, sounds like we're done here 10:19 Kamion going 10:19 mako i'd (wishfully perhaps) assumed that was dealt with 10:19 Kamion going 10:19 Kamion gone === Kyral gets back to study 10:19 mako yeah, i should work too 10:20 mako paper deadline in <11hours 10:20 mako need to pretend i'm an academic 10:20 Kamion mako: sadly I think probably not, we'll find out now+2weeks then? 10:20 Kyral mako: I suspect it will turn into something like the Emacs vs. Vi Holy War === robotgeek too, avait patches! 10:20 mako Kyral: i don't think so === Kyral shrugs 10:20 mako because the issue is not whether the software is any good 10:20 mako it's completely inconsequential 10:20 mako but anywya 10:20 Kyral yah 10:20 mako lets not have that conversation now 10:20 Kyral sorry for mentioning 10:21 mako my fault too :) 10:21 Seveas see you all next time! 10:21 mako thanks everyone for coming }}}